Green Building Forum - Trowel-on insulation Tue, 19 Dec 2023 07:59:57 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228200#Comment_228200 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228200#Comment_228200 Tue, 04 Aug 2015 14:34:32 +0100 ratmin I've just come across Aero Therm, which claims to include aerogel in it's constituents;
http://www.insulationshop.co/aerotherm_reflective_insulation_coating_3l_bucket.html
It looks as though it could be a scam.
Has anyone used it? Any comments?]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228201#Comment_228201 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228201#Comment_228201 Tue, 04 Aug 2015 15:29:12 +0100 skyewright Posted By: ratminIt looks as though it could be a scam.
I've no experience of it, but with a description that includes
It is applied 1mm thick to create a thermal insulation barrier

and
reduces a similar amount of heat loss to 100mm of internal or external wall insulation

I can see why you might be suspicious! :shocked:]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228204#Comment_228204 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228204#Comment_228204 Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:23:01 +0100 SteamyTea Bit like comparing Aluminium (236 W/(m.K) to Selenium (2 W/(m.K) on the c-axis).]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228238#Comment_228238 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228238#Comment_228238 Wed, 05 Aug 2015 13:04:00 +0100 djh Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228243#Comment_228243 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228243#Comment_228243 Wed, 05 Aug 2015 13:57:24 +0100 CWatters
Since aerogel is the best insulation known to man then a 1mm layer of anything can't be better than a 2mm layer of Celotex/PIR... but it could be worse.

Edit: I should point out I mean it's thermal conductivity. The product appears to claim reflective properties.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228245#Comment_228245 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228245#Comment_228245 Wed, 05 Aug 2015 14:30:48 +0100 CWatters
http://www.aerotherminsulation.co.uk/technical-test-information/

•Thermal conductivity (EN 12667): 0.047 W/mK
•Emissivity, spherical emissivity at 20C (Taylor method): 0.93

Presumably the latter is unpainted.

They also cite a before and after test data here..

http://www.aerotherminsulation.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Origin_Test.png

They claim a 36% energy saving but I noticed they say "After Aero-Therm was applied the same comfort level was achieved at 18C" where as the before test was carried out at 20C.

Energy loss is proportional to temperature gradient. The gradient "before" was 20-11C and "after" it was 18-11C.

The ratio (18-11)/(20-11) is about 0.8 so quite a lot of the saving appears to be down to the claim that "After Aero-Therm was applied the same comfort level was achieved at 18C".

What happens in summer? Does it make 30C feel like 32C ?]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228246#Comment_228246 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228246#Comment_228246 Wed, 05 Aug 2015 14:36:00 +0100 CWatters Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228255#Comment_228255 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228255#Comment_228255 Wed, 05 Aug 2015 17:41:24 +0100 jamesingram http://www.chroda-eco.co.uk/method-statement.html
another one here, slightly different, sure they work a bit on uninsulated walls and you ould say better than just putting on new render or plasterer if no other upgrade is being done.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228258#Comment_228258 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228258#Comment_228258 Wed, 05 Aug 2015 19:06:33 +0100 CWatters
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/externalwalls/

"Where 25 per cent or more of an external wall is re-rendered, re-clad, re-plastered or re-lined internally or where 25 per cent or more of the external leaf of a wall is rebuilt, the regulations would normally apply and the thermal insulation would normally have to be improved [If they don't already meet the regs]"]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228263#Comment_228263 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228263#Comment_228263 Wed, 05 Aug 2015 20:37:59 +0100 jamesingram
good idea but meaningless if not enforced. had 2 decades of empty window dressing from our government bodies on building quality etc. the only improvement and forward movement comes from individuals or private companies leading the way by their own choice. shame on HMGOV]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228266#Comment_228266 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228266#Comment_228266 Wed, 05 Aug 2015 21:15:01 +0100 jmansion Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228267#Comment_228267 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228267#Comment_228267 Wed, 05 Aug 2015 21:22:49 +0100 djh Posted By: jamesingramshame on HMGOV
Absolutely.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228309#Comment_228309 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228309#Comment_228309 Thu, 06 Aug 2015 19:39:56 +0100 Nick Parsons Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228311#Comment_228311 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228311#Comment_228311 Thu, 06 Aug 2015 19:48:00 +0100 Nick Parsons
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/externalwalls/

"Where 25 per cent or more of an external wall is re-rendered, re-clad, re-plastered or re-lined internally or where 25 per cent or more of the external leaf of a wall is rebuilt, the regulations would normally apply and the thermal insulation would normally have to be improved [If they don't already meet the regs]" ''

jamesingram 23 hours ago quote
good rule , never seen it enforced or mentioned all the time they've had it , I deal with BC control regularly

**I have in Sheffield, and I advise my clients accordingly.

And that quote on PP is out of date. See s. 5.8 of approved doc L1B (2011), which shows that, for IWI, for example, the cut-off will normally be 50% **in the room you are stood in**.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228468#Comment_228468 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228468#Comment_228468 Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:32:29 +0100 jamesingram ]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228473#Comment_228473 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=228473#Comment_228473 Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:53:01 +0100 passivhausfan
But that's probably irrelevant.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241522#Comment_241522 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241522#Comment_241522 Fri, 27 May 2016 14:58:53 +0100 Bauwer http://greenbuilding.co.uk/bauwer-insulated-renders-and-plasters/

This perlite and vermiculite based plaster is eco friendly and cost efficient.

It is the lowest cost option on the market to level the walls (vs traditional plasters) and achieve number of the benefits:

THERMAL PERFORMANCE (Bauwer Light offers true thermal performance at 0.068 W/m*K)

ACOUSTIC PERFORMANCE (Bauwer products provide high levels of sound reduction)

FIRE PERFORMANCE (Unbeatable Eurocalss A reaction to fire rating, withstand temperature greater than 9000C )

EASIER TO HANDLE AND TO APPLY (no difference in application vs. traditional plasters and renders)

SUSTAINABLE AND ECO-FRIENDLY (made from naturally occurring volcanic glass perlite and vermiculite)

HIGH QUALITY (CE marked and conform to the standards EN 998 – 1:2010)

DEHUMIDIFYING AND VAPOUR PERMEABLE (allow walls to breathe leaving walls dry)

LOW COST AND SPACE EFFICIENT (high volume of product in a bag; more volume of product per £ than traditional render)

MACHINE FRIENDLY (PFT G4, G5, Ritma, others)

Can be used in combination with other insulation system.


Bauwer group is working in the partnership with Svenska Aerogel AB in order to develop a new generation, aerogel based insulated plaster with expected thermal performance of lambda below 0.032
Lab tests are in progress.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241525#Comment_241525 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241525#Comment_241525 Fri, 27 May 2016 16:18:09 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary
bumping up an old thread to plant your advert is not on !!!]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241526#Comment_241526 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241526#Comment_241526 Fri, 27 May 2016 16:23:34 +0100 Nick Parsons
(I am not, by the way, suggesting you don't know this, but an awful lot of householders, and indeed builders, do not).]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241528#Comment_241528 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241528#Comment_241528 Fri, 27 May 2016 16:47:12 +0100 ringi
If an insulated plaster cost little more than normal plaster (including the cost of the plaster) and the job can be complete in a day, then it will be very tempting when we come to decorate that room. (However the insulating plaster must be on sale local to me at a good price with the option to take back any bugs not used.)]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241542#Comment_241542 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241542#Comment_241542 Sat, 28 May 2016 02:07:55 +0100 gyrogear Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryThis sounds awfully like advertising to me which is not allowed on this forum.

Yes, in crap “English” too, with Zombie Punctuation !

“This perlite and vermiculite based plaster”
“the lowest cost option on the market”
“to level the walls
“achieve number of the benefits”
(Unbeatable Eurocalss A reaction to fire rating”
“withstand temperature greater than 9000C )”
“EASIER TO HANDLE AND TO APPLY”
“(no difference in application vs. traditional plasters and renders)”
“(made from naturally occurring volcanic glass perlite and vermiculite)”
“and conform to the standards EN 998 – 1:2010”
DEHUMIDIFYING AND VAPOUR PERMEABLE
“(allow walls to breathe leaving walls dry)”
“LOW COST AND SPACE EFFICIENT”
“(high volume of product in a bag”
MACHINE FRIENDLY
(PFT G4, G5, Ritma, others)
“Can be used in combination with other insulation system”

I could not translate such rubbish into French, that’s for sure !
:devil:
gg]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241552#Comment_241552 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241552#Comment_241552 Sat, 28 May 2016 14:56:28 +0100 CWatters Posted By: ringiAs an example application, we have cavity wall insulation, and the plaster in our bedroom on the outside wall is “live”. There are lots of cold bridge etc around windows etc.

If an insulated plaster cost little more than normal plaster (including the cost of the plaster) and the job can be complete in a day, then it will be very tempting when we come to decorate that room. (However the insulating plaster must be on sale local to me at a good price with the option to take back any bugs not used.)


Thought I would do some sums to work out roughly how much the insulated plaster would add to the thermal resistance of a cavity wall compared to no plaster at all.

Your cavity wall might be better insulated than this but that would make the effect of the plaster even less..

I assumed..

Outside
100mm brick
50mm air
100mm Celotex
100mm Standard blocks
Inside

The Celotex calculator gives that a U-Value of 0.16 W/m^2.K which is a Thermal Resistance of 6.25 m^2.K/W

"Bauwer Light offers true thermal performance at 0.068 W/m*K"

So a 10mm thick layer would have:

u-value of about 0.068 * 1000/10 = 6.8W/m^2.K
or
Thermal Resistance of 0.14 m^2.K/W

So the total Thermal resistance with 10mm of the Bauwer plaster would be..

6.25 + 0.14 = 6.39 m^2.K/W

That's an improvement of..

100*(6.39-6.25)/6.25 = 2.2%

compared to no plaster at all.

Perhaps someone could check these figures.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241555#Comment_241555 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241555#Comment_241555 Sat, 28 May 2016 15:30:49 +0100 ringi Given how much effect thermal bridges have if the Bauwer plaster reduces the effect of them, and is CHEAP to install, then it may be worth it.

Using normal IWI will be hard, as the walls curve in a little round the windows, and the walls would need purge coat of something for air tightness anyway. Also we will have to move out of our bedroom while the work is done, and something like Bauwer plaster, will take no longer than normal plaster.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241681#Comment_241681 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241681#Comment_241681 Wed, 01 Jun 2016 11:12:12 +0100 Bauwer
>If an insulated plaster cost little more than normal plaster (including the cost of the plaster) and the job can be >complete in a day, then it will be very tempting when we come to decorate that room. (However the insulating >plaster must be on sale local to me at a good price with the option to take back any bugs not used.)

>Thought I would do some sums to work out roughly how much the insulated plaster would add to the thermal >resistance of a cavity wall compared to no plaster at all.
>Your cavity wall might be better insulated than this but that would make the effect of the plaster even less..
>I assumed..
>Outside
>100mm brick
>50mm air
>100mm Celotex
>100mm Standard blocks
>Inside
>The Celotex calculator gives that a U-Value of 0.16 W/m^2.K which is a Thermal Resistance of 6.25 m^2.K/W
>"Bauwer Light offers true thermal performance at 0.068 W/m*K"
>So a 10mm thick layer would have:
>u-value of about 0.068 * 1000/10 = 6.8W/m^2.K
>or
>Thermal Resistance of 0.14 m^2.K/W
>So the total Thermal resistance with 10mm of the Bauwer plaster would be..
>6.25 + 0.14 = 6.39 m^2.K/W
>That's an improvement of…100*(6.39-6.25)/6.25 = 2.2%
>compared to no plaster at all.
>Perhaps someone could check these figures.

Hello,
Thanks for your comments; I checked these figures....and all the numbers you shared are exactly correct :)
Saying that, your assumptions are not reasonable in my view….let me explain why:

It is like checking the effect of weight loss pills on a very fit person…the effect would be less than 2% of the weight reduction as person is already fit, low weight, so no need for pills in this case :)

You start in your comparison with a great declared U value of 0.16 W/m^2 (no extra insulation is really needed in this case :) and by applying Bauwer Insulated Plaster at only 10mm thickness (too thin really) you improve U value only to 0.14 m^2.K/W

The situation is different when you start with 225mm solid brick wall with U value of 2.75 W/m^2.K which is a typical solid wall building, many millions of those buildings in the UK.

Application of only 10mm Bauwer Insulated Plaster (10mm too thin and therefore not recommended) would improve U value to 1.96 still about 30% improvement vs base line.

Application of 50mm of Bauwer would deliver total U value of 0.91, 67% improvement
Application of 100mm of Bauwer would deliver total U value of 0.55, 80% improvement vs original U value of 2.75

Now let’s assume more modern unfilled cavity wall with U value of 0.60 W/m^2.K; application of 100mm of Bauwer would deliver total U value of 0.32 or about 50% improvement from original 0.60

Hope this helps.

Other consideration:
Insulation board would potentially have “cold bridges” on connections of each board, so the actual U value might be different from the one declared or calculated above, as those “cold bridges” are not taken into consideration. Potentially losses could up to 40%, particularly if installation job is not done correctly. No “cold bridges” with Bauwer Insulated Plaster, even in the uneven areas, like windows areas, etc.

Insulation boards are not vapour permeable, so wall cannot breath, there are number of potential issues associated with that. Bauwer is more vapour permeable vs traditional plasters at it is light-weight at only 280kg/m3 of hardened density.

Due to light density, Bauwer is not only more vapour permeable, but also more cost efficient vs traditional plasters and renders if you look at £ per volume, eg. sqm coverage at particular thickness.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241682#Comment_241682 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241682#Comment_241682 Wed, 01 Jun 2016 11:24:09 +0100 djh Posted By: BauwerInsulation boards are not vapour permeable
Sorry but that's not correct. Some insulation boards are not vapour permeable, true. But most boards used for retrofit wall insulation are vapour permeable - EPS, woodfibre etc.

It would also be sensible to consider a version that used good fixings which don't introduce anything like 40% thermal bridging.

It would be useful to consider a version that met building regs for your solid wall example, and it would be useful to consider a version that first filled your unfilled cavity too.

So I don't think your assumptions are reasonable either. I think your contributions to general discussions will be valued if you make use of your expertise in an impartial way.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241683#Comment_241683 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241683#Comment_241683 Wed, 01 Jun 2016 11:29:16 +0100 Bauwer
Bauwer insulated plaster is cheaper vs traditional plaster and render due to Bauwer’s light weight density being just 280kg/m3 vs about 1,500kg/m3 of traditional sand and cement render. There is a greater product output volume per bag, generating considerable savings, on the top of other benefits like thermal, acoustic and fire performance.

For example one bag of Bauwer Light would covers 2.5 sqm @ 10mm thickness with a price tag of below £10 including delivery and VAT with one pallet, 104 bags being, minimal order quantity.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241684#Comment_241684 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241684#Comment_241684 Wed, 01 Jun 2016 12:02:28 +0100 Bauwer
I agree; there is a measure for vapour permeability, and some of those boards are vapour permeable to some degree.

>It would also be sensible to consider a version that used good fixings which don't introduce anything like 40% >thermal bridging.

I observed some poor examples with board not being connected well. But yes, good connections and proper installation would reduce “cold bridges” significantly.

>It would be useful to consider a version that met building regs for your solid wall example, and it would be useful >to consider a version that first filled your unfilled cavity too.

It is not always a good idea to fill the cavity, in every case, due to water penetration claims:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/11485758/Cavity-wall-insulation-crisis-may-hit-three-million-homes.html

You could always meet the reg requirements with higher Bauwer application thickness or with combined insulation system, eg Bauwer + alternative insulation with reduced thickness and cost.

Also you could have a case for relaxation of U-values requirements with your building inspector if:

1) the payback term is longer than 15 years (eg. cost of expensive solution to achieve U value is 15 times higher vs. annual energy saving from that solution)

2) the usable floor space is reduced by 5% or more (due to internal insulation taking space)

3) the work is not otherwise technically or functionally feasible (exterior façade requirement for example).

I know numerous examples when these requirements were waved, mainly due to cost to comply, eg payback is longer than 15 years.

We also in the process to introduce ultra-light product with even further improved thermal performance but keeping our costs low.

>So I don't think your assumptions are reasonable either. I think your contributions to general discussions will be >valued if you make use of your expertise in an impartial way.

We just established a sponsored thread at the Green Building Forum in order to provide more information on Bauwer Insulated Plaster and Render.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241685#Comment_241685 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241685#Comment_241685 Wed, 01 Jun 2016 12:15:13 +0100 ringi Posted By: Bauwerone pallet, 104 bags being, minimal order quantity.

If I can't buy it at Wicks by the bag and take back what is not used, then I would not consider using it for a single wall in one room. Also the plaster must be happy with it, otherwise he will quote more to do the job.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241688#Comment_241688 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241688#Comment_241688 Wed, 01 Jun 2016 13:12:10 +0100 djh Posted By: Bauwer
Posted By: djhSo I don't think your assumptions are reasonable either. I think your contributions to general discussions will be valued if you make use of your expertise in an impartial way.

We just established a sponsored thread at the Green Building Forum in order to provide more information on Bauwer Insulated Plaster and Render.
Indeed, and I suppose that hard-sell tactics may be appropriate there. But this is the Green Building Forum and recommending that people try to waive even the very limited thermal requirements of Building Requirements doesn't seem to me in the least appropriate as a comment in a general thread.

It would be very useful if you could learn to use the quotation system, to make it easier for people to understand your messages.]]> Trowel-on insulation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241691#Comment_241691 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13568&Focus=241691#Comment_241691 Wed, 01 Jun 2016 14:06:04 +0100 Bauwer
I believe in many cases house owners decide now to progress with internal or external walls insulation systems (even with help of Green Deal), just because it is simply too expensive. So if we could achieve 80% U value improvement at 20% of cost, I would suggest it is still Eco-friendly in my humble opinion.]]>