Green Building Forum - Building garden room under 2.5m Tue, 19 Dec 2023 04:37:33 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295191#Comment_295191 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295191#Comment_295191 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 08:46:41 +0000 thebeacon
I’m designing a garden room but struggling to get the height under 2.5m to avoid planning permission. I submitted a pre-planning application and the council suggested it might be difficult to gain planning for a garden room over 2.5m because of the proximity of my neighbour’s house.

I’m currently looking into options for making it within 2.5m high. The size is 3.5m deep by 4m wide.

My current measurements look something like this:

180mm Roof
100mm lintel
2000mm door
18mm OSB subfloor
150mm joist with 100mm of insulation in
50mm Ground screw
0 ground level

Working from the ground up I’m left with 180mm for the roofing. That includes joists and a 70mm Firring strip to give the roof a 1:60 gradient. I originally wanted to construct a warm roof but think I would struggle with getting a well-insulated cold roof in under 2.5m.

From my research, it seems impossible to get roofing, joists and firring strips into 180mm while maintaining 90mm for insulation.

Does anyone have any suggestions of how I might be able to achieve the design coming at 2.5m?

I am currently researching using insulated roof panels that span 3.5m without using joists. There does seem to be a minimum gradient of 4d for a lot of these, and currently, the garden room is just over 1degrres.

Any suggestions or insights would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295192#Comment_295192 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295192#Comment_295192 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 09:03:37 +0000 djh Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295193#Comment_295193 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295193#Comment_295193 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 09:15:12 +0000 Dominic Cooney Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295194#Comment_295194 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295194#Comment_295194 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 09:17:23 +0000 Dominic Cooney Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295195#Comment_295195 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295195#Comment_295195 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 09:22:24 +0000 Dominic Cooney If it ends up being e.g. 2.6m at the highest point then the Council has to assess whether that additional 100mm (over what you can do without planning permission) has such a negative impact on the neighbour that it justifies a refusal, and whether that refusal will stand up to appeal.]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295199#Comment_295199 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295199#Comment_295199 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 10:20:47 +0000 fostertom Posted By: Dominic Cooneywhether that refusal will stand up to appealever being a consideration with cash-strapped Planning Depts! Perhaps their budget for the considerable cost of taking part in Planning Appeals comes out of a different pot; at any rate it seems no restraint on crazy easily-appealed decisions.]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295200#Comment_295200 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295200#Comment_295200 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 10:25:53 +0000 WillInAberdeen
The planning exemptions mentioned, are really aimed at garden tool sheds and the like. For the substantial outbuilding you have in mind, it would be a pity to compromise on the headroom and durability over the whole lifetime of the building, just to avoid planning permission? Especially if that means using expensive thin insulation panels.

How about designing the building you really want, with decent headroom and a well insulated (deep) floor and roof, taking it through the planning process, and adjust to any objections that come up? Are your neighbours ok with the idea in principle?]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295201#Comment_295201 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295201#Comment_295201 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 10:48:27 +0000 Nick Parsons
I had a similar issue (less than 2m -indeed less than 1m - from boundary) and I was not prepared to consider a flat roof, so I went for Householder Planning Permission, something over 10 years ago (£120-ish?). There was a site visit but otherwise I think it was a question of waiting 8 weeks then moving my application from the Pending tray to the Out tray. I built a pitched roof, to 4m. Since I was no longer in PD I could have applied for more than 4m ht (and slightly wish I had), but I had to stop somewhere!]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295208#Comment_295208 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295208#Comment_295208 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 11:56:04 +0000 Dominic Cooney although you can just email it to the Planning department of your Local Council.]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295209#Comment_295209 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295209#Comment_295209 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 11:56:52 +0000 Dominic Cooney Posted By: Nick ParsonsI read the title as 'Building garden room under £2.5m'!!

It could cost that much with current material prices and inflation!]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295211#Comment_295211 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295211#Comment_295211 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 12:43:15 +0000 thebeacon
Posted By: Dominic CooneyYou could move it more than 2m from the boundary but I'm guessing you don't have the space?
your correct, i don't have space. It's a narrow garden of 5 metres, the issue is with the property at the rear of the garden, the neighbours to the sides will be fine. the house to the rear sits about 4 feet lower than my garden.


Posted By: WillInAberdeenHow about designing the building you really want, with decent headroom and a well insulated (deep) floor and roof, taking it through the planning process, and adjusting to any objections that come up? Are your neighbours ok with the idea in principle?


Thanks for this. I will apply with my original design of a warm roof and the original height. I have attached a working design of what I have. I will keep it to 3m in height, this allows for a warm roof and a decent amount of head room.


Posted By: Dominic CooneyIt could cost that much with current material prices and inflation!
i know, probably not the ideal time to be planning such a build. But is there ever the right time.]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295213#Comment_295213 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295213#Comment_295213 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 13:16:13 +0000 fostertom Posted By: Dominic Cooneyif you apply via the Planning Portal you also have to pay their admin fee of £28
although you can just email it to the Planning department of your Local Council.I've just found that possibility's been shut off - no email address now provided on website for Planning Dept, and no phone access to check! The only possibility is an automated phone line to book a session with the Duty Officer within a week, for non returnable payment of £25.]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295218#Comment_295218 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295218#Comment_295218 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 14:42:12 +0000 djh Posted By: fostertom
Posted By: Dominic Cooneyif you apply via the Planning Portal you also have to pay their admin fee of £28
although you can just email it to the Planning department of your Local Council.
I've just found that possibility's been shut off - no email address now provided on website for Planning Dept, and no phone access to check! The only possibility is an automated phone line to book a session with the Duty Officer within a week, for non returnable payment of £25.Which council is that? Putting a paper copy through their letterbox is still a possibility I suppose, if all else fails. Although I'd have thought you had their phone and email on file.]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295226#Comment_295226 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295226#Comment_295226 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 15:37:49 +0000 fostertom
Posted By: djhI'd have thought you had their phone and email on file
Yeah but those may or may not work, what with post-Covid work-from-home reorganisation, and how long would it take to find that the Application hadn't been lodged? Anyway, it's a pointer to how they intend to go, via Planning Portal only, a drag because you have to pay their extra ransom and it's a lousy website that takes hours to plough through.]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295240#Comment_295240 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295240#Comment_295240 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 20:09:13 +0000 djh Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295241#Comment_295241 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295241#Comment_295241 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 20:30:02 +0000 jamesingram Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295243#Comment_295243 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295243#Comment_295243 Wed, 09 Mar 2022 21:56:04 +0000 Jonti Posted By: jamesingramdig out and build with with floor level with ground , leave a gap around and retain and strut with sleepers or gravel board

Pretty much what I was thinking. Why not go down half a meter and solve the problem that way?]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295266#Comment_295266 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295266#Comment_295266 Thu, 10 Mar 2022 22:44:04 +0000 Dominic Cooney Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295267#Comment_295267 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295267#Comment_295267 Thu, 10 Mar 2022 22:52:35 +0000 Dominic Cooney Plus there are some types of applications that you can’t submit on the planning portal.
Perhaps they are due a formal complaint asking why their planning email isn’t on the website.]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295270#Comment_295270 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295270#Comment_295270 Fri, 11 Mar 2022 09:12:19 +0000 fostertom Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295274#Comment_295274 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295274#Comment_295274 Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:15:15 +0000 djh Posted By: Dominic CooneyI would like to think that South Hams are obliged to accept planning applications by email. That’s got to be easier for them than paper applications with all that scanning in.I don't think you're correct. Perhaps you could point to the relevant legislation if you think you are? I think it's more likely they are required to accept paper submissions. I doubt there's any legislation requiring them to accept anything by email.]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295280#Comment_295280 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295280#Comment_295280 Fri, 11 Mar 2022 12:32:44 +0000 Dominic Cooney
Posted By: fostertoma week on still awaiting


try 9 weeks in Stafford Borough Council only to be told its invalid for some minor reason.]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295282#Comment_295282 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295282#Comment_295282 Fri, 11 Mar 2022 12:36:21 +0000 Dominic Cooney Posted By: Dominic CooneyPlus there are some types of applications that you can’t submit on the planning portal.

So this would result in multiple paper copies being required to submit, which is a waste of paper, that then have to be scanned in and added to the electronic file. I even remember one LPA printing out applications submitted electronically, so that they could then scan them in and add them to the electronic file. Nuts.]]> Building garden room under 2.5m http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295283#Comment_295283 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17412&Focus=295283#Comment_295283 Fri, 11 Mar 2022 12:52:53 +0000 Dominic Cooney Posted By: djhPerhaps you could point to the relevant legislation

Not legislation but guidance (NPPG):

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/making-an-application

Application form

Where can the standard application form be found?

Applicants are encouraged to apply electronically through the Local Planning Authority’s website. The standard application form can be viewed for information on the GOV.UK website. Alternatively, an application can be completed on a paper version of the form provided by the local planning authority.

Does a planning application have to be made on paper?

Applicants are encouraged to apply electronically. However, online submission of supporting information may not always be possible. In these circumstances, information can be submitted to the local planning authority in hard copy, or electronically (eg on a CD or USB storage device).




No mention of the Planning Portal in the guidance. For people that do it as a job the PPortal makes it easy because it remembers your details and you have all your applications stored on there.
but Joe Public should be able to apply by email.]]>