Green Building Forum - ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

skyewright — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 14:31:38 +0000

Posted By: djh
Posted By: skyewrightUnless your session has timed out...

But that only happens about once a week or so ...

My experience differs, considerably.
I find that if I haven't shown the Forum "I'm here" (e.g. loaded a page) recently (10-15 minutes? Maybe less? I've never timed it) then if, as a precaution, I refresh the Discussions page before posting I'll often find that I'm no longer logged in.

Posted By: SteveZ,,,copy your post before hitting the button, just in case

[aol]Me too[/aol]

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

Saint — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 16:51:37 +0000

What chance for homeowners to get EWI done at a cost of around Â£8 - Â£10k without grant aid.....?

Why is it so expensive if the raw materials cost between Â£25 and Â£30/m2?
Yes you'll have to pay for drainage goods, soil pipes, satellite dishes etc. to be moved and then there's the scaffolding and labour but do they really add that much?

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

Jonti — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 16:54:16 +0000

Saint,

I think it is because it is a niche market here in the UK and so costs more. Hopefully this will change.

Jonti

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

Fred56 — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 18:30:21 +0000

re
Why is it so expensive if the raw materials cost between Â£25 and Â£30/m2?
Yes you'll have to pay for drainage goods, soil pipes, satellite dishes etc. to be moved and then there's the scaffolding and labour but do they really add that much?

If you read the publication 'Fit for the Future' Housing Corporation, 2008 they discuss the cost problem with external wall insulation. Their findings were that in the UK we were being charged 3x the going rate paid in Germany. Personally, I believe this is as a result of two main factors - the skills are not fully diffused into the market but most important due to the perverting of product certification to create market control. The BRE seems to be the source of most evil as far as this is concerned. However, if you look at many innovative products, you find the certification is only valid if the installation is done by 'approved' contractors. This delivers market control to the certifying bodies, manufacturers and their selected contractors. The quality excuse, is just that, an excuse.

In 2011 I was looking to build in block with external insulation. The lowest quote I got for external insulation and render was over Â£100 m-2. That quote only allowed for 50mm of polyurethane. One comment from a supplier was along these lines. "We don't have to be competitive, most of our work is for the public sector and they just don't know what to pay". I got a similar comment from an outrageously expensive SIP supplier too.

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

DarylP — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 19:55:13 +0000

Fred56,

So true....... as regards LA paying!
A certain LA near me has paid very generously for 60mm phenolic and dash-rendered finish on a series of 3-bed BISF semis.
Each one took less than a day to finish, once the scaff was up. The things is LAs are paying through the nose with OUR money...

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

atomicbisf — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 20:07:06 +0000

Posted By: DarylPFred56,

So true....... as regards LA paying!
A certain LA near me has paid very generously for 60mm phenolic and dash-rendered finish on a series of 3-bed BISF semis.
Each one took less than a day to finish, once the scaff was up. The things is LAs are paying through the nose with OUR money...http:///forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/cry.gif" alt="" title="" >

I hope they sealed up the ventilated cavity, otherwise I would think it would be almost entirely ineffective!

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

Fred56 — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 23:22:46 +0000

The failure to get competitive prices seems spread through the public sector. I was contracting as a supervisor on a public sector site a few years back. The prices they were paying were shocking. I would base a prelim estimate from Spons but the main contractor insisted it was impossible to work done at such low prices. The exact inverse of the normal world.

Edit for spelling

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

Triassic — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 15:49:06 +0000

One comment from a supplier was along these lines. "We don't have to be competitive, most of our work is for the public sector and they just don't know what to pay". I got a similar comment from an outrageously expensive SIP supplier.

And now you know why houses are so very expensive. The certification bodies for one, are virtual cartels. Then you get insurance companies saying timber frame is non standard construction!!!!!

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

SteamyTea — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:28:42 +0000

If you truly self build, does your local Building Control become the certification body?

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

Triassic — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:42:28 +0000

To be honest I'm not sure what the Building Control guy does for his money. The one I've had dealings with was rather clueless. At time you do have to wonder if it's bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake.

How is building controlled in other EU countries?

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

DarylP — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:44:31 +0000

No. BCBs or AIs can certify compliance with Building Regs, but Archs/NHBC/Zurich can give Certs & Warranty cover.

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

DarylP — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:45:51 +0000

In France your main contractor has 10-year insurance. Claim off this if any problems appear in 10 years, after that you are on your own.

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

Triassic — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 23:00:16 +0000

Posted By: DarylPIn France your main contractor has 10-year insurance. Claim off this if any problems appear in 10 years, after that you are on your own.

The last main contractor I used has gone bust 3 times in the last ten years!!!

ECO Obligation Funding Stopped

Peter_in_Hungary — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 23:47:43 +0000

Posted By: TriassicHow is building controlled in other EU countries?

Over here, for the past few years you have needed to get a qualified registered person ('responsible person') to oversee the building works. This is bit like a private BCO and of course they charge for their services. The system was started to avoid the problems that arose when things went wrong with multiple contractors involved and the finger pointing started. In theory the 'responsible person' has the liability to ensure all is done properly.
However
The last job we had done that involved the scheme was a barn conversion that involved putting in a reinforced concrete first floor into a stone /rubble walled barn. Re-bar designed by a structural engineer, re-bar installed by a local 'man who does this' (has hydraulic benders in his garage apparently) and the shuttering installed by the jobbing builder. So 1+ ton of re-bar, a mixer lorry and a bit and a concrete pump later and we have a floor. (the floor is 7m x 5.5m clear span)
The floor is in. The building occupied (absolutely no noise transmission between floors BTW) The conversion is waiting for a bit of EWI to meet thermal regs so as yet 'unfinished'
The deal with the 'responsible person' is 50% up front, rest on completion.

The 'responsible person' has never been seen, apparently if he knows the contractors he doesn't bother with site visits, but he did send a message via the builder that if the job is finished could he have the remainder of his fee
Oh and the builder took the building diary (legal requirement here) home one night to get the 'responsible person' to sign off what was necessary.
Luckily we have an architect, a structural engineer, a civil engineer and a mechanical engineer in the (extended) family (kids and partners) so we are happy with what was done.

And the bureaucrats are happy