Apparently, if you have solar panels in Spain you a) have to grid connect them within 2 months of installation and b) pay €0.06/kWh for the electricity you generate. The only exemption is if you're far enough away from the grid for it not to be practical.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/14/spain-energy-idUSL6N0GE1WR20130814

I really really hope that a) this report is wrong and b) no government ever tries anything so mindbogglingly stupid in a proper country.

H/t the other place: http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20781.msg239750;topicseen#msg239750

Posted By: SteamyTeaDo they then pay you as well.

I don't think so. My recollection was that the FIT scheme was stopped about a year ago but I might be wrong.

Thanks Skyewright. Had seen that thread but thought the Reuters report was a bit more definitive and coherent and also it goes further in saying that you normally can't just be totally off-grid or have an off-grid part of your house. However, something StephenDV says is worth comment:

What's worse, is that some people have been installing semi-off-grid systems where it's essentially an off-grid battery based system but with a backup connection to the grid instead of a generator. It appears that these types of installs also fall under the same mandate, so they will have to install a consumption meter and pay the energy mafia for what they use in their own semi-off-grid setups.

While this is indeed daft it seems to me that it would not be unreasonable to insist that people with their own generation but who use some grid supply be on a tariff with a higher standing charge to cover the cost of the connection and the more-peaky usage.

As PV man in Italy I get a payment for the size of the system for 20 years that almost pays for the 15 year loan I took out to install my 28 panels and I get first call on my generated lecky, and I get paid about 17 cents/kW for exported lecky. Hardly a week goes by without wondering when the Italian bureaucracy will SNAFU us - I think they have already done something unpleasant to all non-roof mounted systems, which given all the PV fields that have sprung up around here owned by international (mainly Japanese) companies is understandable - sadly they didn't differentiate those v small (relatively) systems put on the ground by house owners with no useful roof!

Fingers crossed! but also we took this on knowing there was a worst case outcome and we can hack it if it comes to it - you have do really consider all the risks on this sort of thing.

BTW I think our panels had guaranteed 80% output after 25 years or something like that. Do we have any reliable info on panel longevity? And on Inverter longevity? Should I be saving a little every month to pay for these capital items when they die?

17 cents/kW

per kWh.

Posted By: GotanewlifeFingers crossed! but also we took this on knowing there was a worst case outcome…

This is beyond the worst case I would previously have been able to think of (which would have been ending the FIT scheme and, just conceivably, banning export or even insisting on disconnection.) Despite the previous American insistence that you don't own the rain that lands on your own roof (now gone) I'd have never have thought of charging people for using their own equipment to make use of the sunlight falling on it.

(P.S., perhaps next year they'll be charging people for sunlight coming in through their windows.)

Nothing to do with Africa then,
Lets lay off the stereotypes eh.

Yes kWh
Yes charging for the PV generated is worse than worse case.

so what's next?

'You have fitted insulation to your house so you need to pay a higher standing charge to partially make up for the cash the utilities are loosing as a result'

shortly followed by

'Your frugal ways are unfair on the rest of the consumers who buy sensible amounts of electricity & gas'

Posted By: jms452shortly followed by

Basically yes, the market will charge what the consumer can pay. This puts upper and lower limits on what can be charged (it can be dressed up anyway you like).
I think I read that the average domestic energy spend was about 8% of the average household wage.
This could go up to possibly 12% (would not particular affect the top 50% of earners but would hurt the bottom 20%) for the same amount of energy used.
But if this decreased overall usage by say 15%, the wholesale price would probably drop (this assumes that the European market does the same).

It is really just supply and demand with volume and wholesale price on one side and percentage of household spend on the other.
If this made larger 'profits' for the energy companies they would be forced to bail out the hardest hit (as they are now but few claim it).

Posted By: jms452s
'You have fitted insulation to your house so you need to pay a higher standing charge to partially make up for the cash the utilities are loosing as a result'

is that not more or less what the governments considering doing with VED for low and zero emission vehicles?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/9301269/Drivers-punished-for-going-green.html

how's this for an "analogy" i once had an orange mobile phone that used your wifi to boost signal, BUT also took any resultant downloads (over wifi) out of you data allowance, so effectively charging you for using your own wifi. i think it was called "orange unique". needless to say that phone got rooted+flashed double quick!

Posted By: jms452so what's next?

'You have fitted insulation to your house so you need to pay a higher standing charge to partially make up for the cash the utilities are loosing as a result'

That would, indeed, be ridiculous and unfair (which doesn't mean it couldn't happen, of course).

However, “you have fitted insulation, PV and electric heating to your house resulting in your consumption from the grid being much more variable than most so you need to pay a higher standing charge to cover the cost of providing it” would be disappointing but not so ridiculous and unfair.

Posted By: SteamyTeaGoing to be interesting to see what fiddles happen with the RHI and any metering.

Anyone on top FIT rate could probably make money by floodlighting their solar panels at night.

Posted By: SteamyTea
There is a more serious point to this and that is what would energy storage actually be worth.

Absolutely. You'd be providing a real service. In contrast to my scheme which is desperately inefficient and entirely satirical.

Posted By: Ed Davies(P.S., perhaps next year they'll be charging people for sunlight coming in through their windows.)

That's what us Brits did a while ago. Remember the window tax?

So how long before UK gov./ Energy (FITs) suppliers follow suit and grab back those generous FIT hand outs given to all those wealthy enough to fit PV for financial gain ?

Isn't this Espana situation some what hypothetical . There's been a smoking ban ( in bars etc) in Spain for longer than the UK. You wouldn't know it to go there :)