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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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Products: Using boiler to directly heat washing machine/dishwasher

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  1.  
    The ISE was a hot and cold fill then?
    Edit: yep it was.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2015
     
    marktime
    Great improvement on the mangle I can assure you! Mangle? Mangle? What's a mangle?

    Ahh, That went the same way as the Dolly Tub and the Peggy Stick, and the washer wimmin had arms like Sumo wrestlers. :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2015
     
    We have an Indesit dishwasher which can accept hot water up to 60 deg C. I did not realise this until I re-read the user manual.

    We also have lashings of solar heated water available for half the year. It was a simple job to swop over the connections, but check how much water is run off before hot water is available. Mine originally was 8.5 litres, which exceeded the fill volume of 8 litres (2 fills used for wash and hot rinse) and would have been pointless.

    After re-routing the plumbing pipework for the hot water system I got the run-off volume down to 2.5 litres. Even in winter when there is little to no solar available, the initial 2.5 litres is at just below room temperature rather than 6-8 deg C mains temperature and water is heated by the main heating system rather than electricity.

    We also have a hot and cold fill washing machine but this has cold feed only at present. I have yet to change this over following the re-plumbing of the hot system.
  4.  
    I have a cold fill Bosch dishwasher which is fed by a 22mm cold pipe from a cold water tank. The pipe run is long, so the water in the pipe is usually the same temperature as the room, at about 20C or above. Only the water in the pipe fills the machine. So, approx 20C water enters the dishwasher rather than 0C to 5C from the cold water mains pipe. This, over the year must save quite a bit of electricity. It is also quicker to run through the cycle. Similar with the cold fill only washing machine.

    With the washing machine to make the wash quicker, and more economical, I observed its operation. I have a 1/4 turn isolator inside at the front of a kitchen cupboard and always turn off the water supply after a wash to avoid problems of burst hoses, etc. I start the washing machine and hear the drain pump operate. Once this stops the water valve opens, but keep the cold water isolated (off). I filled the machine via the soap dispensing tray with jugs of hot water heated by cheaper gas. I know when there is enough water when the drum starts to spin. This is labour intensive and defeats the notion of an auto washing machine, but quicker and more economical. I could have small hose to the hot supply with a tap inside the adjacent kitchen cupboard to ease filling.
  5.  
    Posted By: GaryBAfter re-routing the plumbing pipework for the hot water system I got the run-off volume down to 2.5 litres. Even in winter when there is little to no solar available, the initial 2.5 litres is at just below room temperature rather than 6-8 deg C mains temperature and water is heated by the main heating system rather than electricity.

    You can run 10mm soft copper directly back to the hot water cylinder. This pipe run will hold little water. The cold in the pipe run can be run off until hot comes though then turn on the machine. Tee off this pipe for the dishwasher and washing machine. These appliances do not care how fast or slow they fill.
  6.  
    OK dishwashers and washing machines are auto appliances. You put in the clothes and dishes then the detergent and select the programme and hit the switch and leave. The machine does it all with anyone interfering.

    With cold fill only machines the best way of reducing electricity consumption for most people is raise the temperature of the cold water which can be from 2C to 5C a lot of the year. Have a length of 28mm copper pipe from the cold supply, feeding "only" the washing machine and dishwasher. Ensure that the 28mm pipe can hold enough water to say initially fill the washing machine. 1 metre of 28mm copper pipe holds 0.61 litres of water. The pipe can be in a continual "S" pattern, say behind a kitchen unit. It must be in the heated house space. The water in the pipe will reach the temperature of the room, say approx 21C.

    The internal electric heater of the dishwasher and washing machine is on less while heating the water. Quite a bit of energy is saved. If say a 30C wash is selected, the machine is raising the temperature from 21C to 30C, 9C. If the water was coming in at 3C it has to raise the temperature of the water 27C. Twice as much. Depending on how often the appliances are used a considerable amount of energy over a year can be saved. The cost of the copper pipe will probably pay for itself in around year.
  7.  
    Those wanting to save money on electricity using a dishwasher can do the following, but it is not switch on and forget. If say a 50C wash is selected, listen to the initial drain pump operate. It always operates first to pump out any residual water. When the pump stops, open the dishwasher door. Find out how much water the dishwasher holds. Pour into the dishwasher hot water, say at a minimum of 50C from the tap, using a large jug.
  8.  
    Posted By: Water SystemsPour into the dishwasher hot water, say at a minimum of 50C from the tap, using a large jug.

    I've come across people who advocate a similar "solution" to cold fill washing machines, i.e. have an appropriate volume of hot water ready in a a jug or 2, then pour that in via the drawer as you hear the initial fill start.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2015
     
    I think what is really being discussed here is the energy source to heat water, that then washes dishes.
    If you have E7, run the machines at night.
    But if they really do take as little water as they claim (read about a dishwasher using 20 litres) then even at 95°C that is not a great deal of energy, or cost. 2.1 kWh or about 38p. I do a lot of washing up at work, but would not do it for 40p and hour.
  10.  
    Posted By: SteamyTeaI think what is really being discussed here is the energy source to heat water

    Yes.
    The people advocating the approach I mentioned have copious volumes of hot water heated by Solar Thermal.
  11.  
    Posted By: SteamyTeaBut if they really do take as little water as they claim (read about a dishwasher using 20 litres) then even at 95°C that is not a great deal of energy, or cost. 2.1 kWh or about 38p. I do a lot of washing up at work, but would not do it for 40p and hour.

    Most of that 20 litres will be for rinsing. The initial input of water will be heated by the dishwasher. If the energy required to heat it is halved then there is a saving.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2015
     
    So a kettles worth, it is really worth the bother for such a small saving. Get the kids to turn the home entertainment off and get then to wash up will probably save more.

    KISS

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