Green Building Forum - Worrying story. Tue, 19 Dec 2023 05:57:32 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9886#Comment_9886 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9886#Comment_9886 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:08:11 +0000 GBP-Keith
Have a read please.

http://www.buildingforafuture.co.uk/winter07/stroudhome.pdf]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9887#Comment_9887 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9887#Comment_9887 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:02:51 +0000 Johan
What does he back the claim that 'organic' insulation is more expensive then fibreglass with? The loose fill newspaper/wood fiber fills are pretty competative.

Triple glazing is definitly not more expensive the double glazing. He's just used the wrong supplier!

He's claiming a high level of airtightness. Yet a passive stack is suffienct ventilation? This sounds a bit confusing...

What does he use for heating? As both condensing and biomass boiler as no good according to the author.

On what basis is underfloor more efficient/cheaper to run the radiators?]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9889#Comment_9889 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9889#Comment_9889 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:36:51 +0000 StuartB
I am currently trying to find the best solutions for a new build and I must say I agree with most of what he says. There are lots of solutions out there that can provide some of your 'eco' needs for most things but to invest in it all would cost a fortune. Performance of these solutions almost always fall below what the manufacturers suggest and they need to be more responsible in this area. The majority put profit before 'saving the planet' Fact.

True he needs to provide more references but 90% of what he says I would agree with. My view now is to forget expensive underperforming partial heating solutions and to have the very best insulation you can afford. This seems to be a recurring theme in many discussions.]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9912#Comment_9912 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9912#Comment_9912 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:29:06 +0000 ted
Any claim that this house is (nearly) zero carbon needs a lot more data to back it up.

If you publish it then please fix the typos and make the keys to the graphs (p28) legible and put meaningful time marks on the x axis.

(Not written by tony in disguise is it? :) )]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9913#Comment_9913 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9913#Comment_9913 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:14:55 +0000 Nick Parsons
Yes, but they are more expensive, whether we like it or not. They are closer in price than sheep's wool etc, but still more costly than (generally subsidised) min. wool.

Nick]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9914#Comment_9914 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9914#Comment_9914 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:17:09 +0000 Paul in Montreal
Posted By: Johan
He's claiming a high level of airtightness. Yet a passive stack is suffienct ventilation? This sounds a bit confusing...

It's quite troubling because he states that no blower-door tests have been made - so he really has no idea if his construction is airtight or not - fibreglass insulation is not airtight by any means and he states he uses "blob and dob" of the plasterboard on the inside and there's no mention of any airtight construction details. He briefly mentions MHRV at the end but it's not clear if he's using it or not.

And his citation-free claims about the problems of condensing boilers are also worrisome.

Paul in Montreal]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9915#Comment_9915 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9915#Comment_9915 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:19:33 +0000 nigel
In the end I thought it left nearly all questions unanswered.
And I found myself questioning that any of the headline claims are in the least bit credible. In fact I would say that the are fantasy.

There was even the fantastic claim of average roof insulation depths being 325mm based on some being 200mm(below building regs standard) being compensated by some at 500mm.
Thats really clever.

And he is also able to ventilate the building rapidly with a fan rated at 3W - oh yes really.

This is a bad article, badly written, which adds nothing to green building and Keith, yes, you are right to question its value.]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9916#Comment_9916 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9916#Comment_9916 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:30:24 +0000 Chris Wardle
I also think he should explain why he is using lightweight blocks with boards dabbed on for his inner skin, meaning the only serious thermal mass in a 3 storey house is in the ground floor slab. Presumably there is some reason for this but it doesn't sound like a very good strategy to me, particularly when he has invested in half a Cotswold hillside of thermal mass on the outside where it is only any good for looking at...]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9917#Comment_9917 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9917#Comment_9917 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:32:37 +0000 jon
1: The U value quoted is, taking into account the windows, probably 100% higher than the minimum standard
2: The property needs heating energy import and has no facilities to do otherwise
3: There is no direct wire connection to micro gen and there is no microgen

If you go to CfSH tech notes p29: The propery appears to fail each of the 4 tests listed

It looks to me like a good, possibly level 4?, house.

Some of the cost claims look a bit iffy but good on him if he's really done it.

However, he makes some valid points. There is the question of whether or not we really need zero carbon (and whether or not the Government will back track when they realise the consequences of their proposals). Perhaps it would be better written from a developer's perspective but without reference to the actual house?]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9920#Comment_9920 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9920#Comment_9920 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:55:41 +0000 guyc
As with any project what is rejected and why is important. I liked seeing his decision making in the article, but like ted I would of still liked a bit more of what he actually did. Maybe you can drop some of the stuff that has no references (e.g. the condenser boiler bullets) and replace it with a little more on what went into the house.

What heating did he choose?

Am I right that his internal temperature in winter dropped to 14c. Is this an acceptable temperature?]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9921#Comment_9921 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9921#Comment_9921 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:07:27 +0000 howdytom Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9923#Comment_9923 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9923#Comment_9923 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:29:25 +0000 Mike George
I think you should publish the article, and maybe start a topic here where Mike Hillard could be invited to explain a little more, and to also give us some more references, and to show us the data which will be coming on stream soon. The proof will ultimately lie with the data, whether the building performs as stated or not. In any event, developments like this are to be comended.]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9940#Comment_9940 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9940#Comment_9940 Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:55:06 +0000 andytk
If this was an average semi detached and someone bought it the first thing they'd have to do is install a proper central heating system. Claiming that your heating bill is only £60/annum doesn't count if you're well below the temperature that will cause health problems for half the population.

Andy]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9948#Comment_9948 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9948#Comment_9948 Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:05:31 +0000 tony
I wouldn't use passive stack ventilation. as Paul says.

Thermal mass missing/wasted and it will be very air leaky as blobbed and dobbed. The bellows effect will tend to cool it too.

Like the reasoned approach even if I disagree with some things

Don't like the big conservatory

Do very much like the insulation going down well below the floor -- I would have used batts loose fill tends to move arround, settle and miss bits on installation.

Overall I enjoyed it.]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9971#Comment_9971 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9971#Comment_9971 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:39:46 +0000 GBP-Keith Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9980#Comment_9980 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=9980#Comment_9980 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:38:02 +0000 Tuna
The biggest problem I have with the article is that it is presented in the first person and effectively is an opinion piece. However, it's trying to present itself as factual, which it most definately isn't. Some of his conclusions are quite sound - builders do tend to have a rather more pragmatic approach to eco-friendly building than green theoreticians. However, some of them appear to be based on personal predjudices and guesswork. The whole piece would come off better as being either an independent assesment of what he's done (with suitable explanations and detail) or as an opinion piece of what he believes works - but not as both.

I did like the bit where he described his home automation set up as "powerfull looking". :D]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=10008#Comment_10008 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=10008#Comment_10008 Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:23:02 +0000 andytk
He claims that the automated system managed to reduce the temp by 9 degrees from 40 C.

I'm sorry but thats not all that impressive. That still leaves you with a house at 31 C which is far from comfortable. Again if that house is sold to someone with money (and it almost undoubtedly will) then the first thing they will do is install A/C.

I know I would if my house got that hot regularly in the summer.

And after criticizing almost all forms of space heating he then fails to mention which one he is actually using?????

Andy

Andy]]>
Worrying story. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=10079#Comment_10079 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=910&Focus=10079#Comment_10079 Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:21:05 +0000 GBP-Keith
http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=919&page=1#Item_0]]>