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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorWeeBeastie
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2021
     
    Hello.

    I understand direct electric heating can be frowned upon here, but I am in a situation where I need it for perhaps a few heating seasons due to staging of works.

    Calculators tell me:
    1.2kW for a living room
    1.2kw for bedroom 1
    1.0kW for bedroom 2

    My priorities are heaters which are quiet, have integral timer + thermostat (I don't need or want Wifi or smartphone control) and at the cheaper end of the price range. Wall mounted, not portable. I'm not too fussed about the warm-up time or 'feel' of the heat. Ideally not too ugly! So something fairly basic.

    Any suggestions? There are some inexpensive panel/convector heaters out there (e.g.Mylex, Stiebel Eltron) - are these fine?

    Thanks.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2021
     
    I have some Stiebel Eltron quartz heaters (IW 120 & IW 180). The IW 180 is half of my main house heating system (the other half is a VEAB duct heater). It's connected via a separate fused timeswitch. I don't use any temperature control but just control the number of hours it comes on, and switch it to one, two or three 'bars' hot. The IW 120s are in our shower rooms just to take the chill off if desired.

    The Stiebel Eltron units are pretty basic. Reasonably made but I've had to replace the pull cord a couple of times because it scrapes along the raw edge of the hole in the casing. Stiebel Eltron told me I'd need to replace the entire switch unit including the pull cord, but after I opened the unit I discovered a simple piece of cord just tied to the operating lever of the switch! Maybe the more capable units are a bit better quality.

    I've also had to replace the Timeguard timeswitch once. It died and Timeguard sent a replacement under warranty.

    Don't know anything about Mylek (is that who you meant?)
    • CommentAuthorWeeBeastie
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2021
     
    Thanks, djh.

    ...yes, Mylek :)

    I've just had a look at the Stiebel Eltron website and the description of their panel heaters is "ideal as a booster heater or interim heater for spring/autumn". This makes me nervous - why not for winter if the wattage is suitable??

    I am looking for one of those elusive 'basic yet well made' products!

    Adax Solaire have some attractive slim panel heaters but most of them seem overly complicated for my needs with smartphone/wifi control.

    Also, if a wall mounted heater comes with a plug, is there any reason it would be better hard wired?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2021
     
    Posted By: WeeBeastieAlso, if a wall mounted heater comes with a plug, is there any reason it would be better hard wired?

    Dunno. In my case all the heaters are wired through fused units back through radial spurs to individual MCBs in the consumer unit. That's the way my electrician wanted it. I suppose for something that's going to be left switched on for long periods and that draws significant currents there's less to go wrong with a permanently wired solution.

    Having said that, my duct heater just came with a length of flex and I've terminated that with a 13A plug and that is plugged in to a TP-Link smart plug that's plugged into a ring main, so I can control it by wireless commands from a Raspberry Pi. I never bothered wiring up the radial for it but it seems to work OK.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2021
     
    Smart plug and a £20 convector heater ?
  1.  
    We had some Adax Neo flat panel radiators previously in an extension (as backup in case we had underestimated heat load, which we had). We liked them as they didn't click, or smell of burnt dust, as others do. Certainly seemed better made than the cheap fan heaters we had previously.

    They had individual digital thermostats and time clocks. AIUI the 'ecodesign Lot 20' product regulations made built-in thermostat and timers pretty much mandatory, maybe that has changed now.

    (Edit - they now seem to be available with or without WiFi control)

    Seems that they should be ideally be hard wired rather than plug-in:
    https://www.electricradiatorsdirect.co.uk/news/do-electric-radiators-need-their-own-circuit/
    • CommentAuthorWeeBeastie
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2021
     
    Thanks, djh & WiA. Useful article and feedback on the Adax Neo. Full rewire starts next week so there's no excuse for not following best practice!
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2021
     
    As your install is only temporary, Id just plug your heaters into the ring mains serving the lounge and bedrooms. Its roughly 4 amps per kw so youve got 5 amps for your lounge ring and 9 amps for the upstairs ring. Unless youve got some exceptional loads on your non kitchen rings, there'll be more than enough spare capacity for a 32 amp ring to supply.

    If you put in dedicated circuits for the heaters with fused spurs they will all need decommissioning when the staged works is complete.
    • CommentAuthorWeeBeastie
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2021
     
    Posted By: philedge

    If you put in dedicated circuits for the heaters with fused spurs they will all need decommissioning when the staged works is complete.


    Good point, thank you.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2021
     
    Posted By: philedgeIf you put in dedicated circuits for the heaters with fused spurs they will all need decommissioning when the staged works is complete.

    Why would you have to do anything other than disconnect the heaters, and maybe switch off the MCBs in the CU?
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2021
     
    Unused fused spurs would likely seem a bit unsightly to some, certainly to me. Theyd need removing and the cable behind them making safe, followed by decorating. If the house is being rewired Id certainly not want redundant cables buried in walls and taped up or cut off in the CU.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2021
     
    Perhaps I'm not so precious about appearances then. I don't mind seeing a fused connection unit, even less a blanking plate (I have several in our hose for various reasons). There's been no suggestion of a rewiring, and even if there were I'd prefer to have spare unused cables than not have them (in fact I do!)
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2021
     
    Posted By: djhThere's been no suggestion of a rewiring



    Posted By: WeeBeastieFull rewire starts next week so there's no excuse for not following best practice!


    I think what counts as best practice is to a fair degree individual choice, but I wouldnt want avoidable redundant cables in what is essentially a new system.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2021
     
    @ Weebeastie
    Re; fused spurs, you could go ahead and put in the appropriate circuits for your heaters with front cable outlets. Eventually those electrical outlets could be used as a power source for say A/A wall mount indoor units. A 3 split
    could easily handle those heating ( or cooling) needs and more.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2021
     
    Posted By: philedge
    Posted By: djhThere's been no suggestion of a rewiring
    Posted By: WeeBeastieFull rewire starts next week so there's no excuse for not following best practice!
    Oops! Obviously missed that :shamed:

    I think what counts as best practice is to a fair degree individual choice, but I wouldnt want avoidable redundant cables in what is essentially a new system.

    I specifically did want extra cables. Experience has taught me that they can come in useful and they do no harm.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2021 edited
     
    I would look for a convection heater with optional booster fan in case you need to speed up the warm up rate. eg if you go out you can turn them down/off and reheat quickly when you come back.

    With some the fan comes on automatically with heat. On others you can choose to have the fan on or rely on convection. Check with the manufacturer.

    I'm thinking something like the Dimplex DXC30F & DXC30FTi (Timer) which are around £50?. Think they can be free standing or wall mounted.

    They are slightly odd in that the available modes selected by switches are..

    Fan only (eg cold)
    1kW fan assisted
    2kW Convection
    3kW Fan assisted

    So you would mostly leave it in 2kW mode and set the stat accordingly. Switch to 3kW to speed up warm up time.
  2.  
    We have Mill Heat panel heaters. Very basic and straightforward, they just plug in to the mains and are fairly cheap.

    Ours are 600W but they do a 1.2 kW model: https://www.millheat.co.uk/ib1000

    In theory they are app and Wi-Fi controlled but you can just use the buttons on the heater to set the temperature and they have an onboard thermostat. The app just lets you set the time periods if you want more control.
  3.  
    I went with the Stiebel Eltrons in the end as had to make a quick decision. They have vents at the front so not as pretty as the Mill option. But they are tiny compared to the old K2s and are fitted in discreet places. Only a couple are installed so far but they seem to be doing a good job. They are on fused spurs (didn't come with plugs).

    A2A is the intention down the line.

    Thanks for all input.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2021
     
    Direct electric 100% efficient air to air heat pump in the region of 350% efficient, your choice
  4.  
    Posted By: tonyDirect electric 100% efficient air to air heat pump in the region of 350% efficient, your choice

    Don't forget to factor in the fact that the electric heaters as supposed to be a temporary solution for a few years so unless the heat pump is reusable without significant cost then the capital cost of the HP vs. direct electric must be factored in.
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