Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:36:44 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300676#Comment_300676 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300676#Comment_300676 Thu, 09 Mar 2023 15:32:18 +0000 kaicasswell http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300677#Comment_300677 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300677#Comment_300677 Thu, 09 Mar 2023 17:26:39 +0000 Nick Parsons
Is the basement habitable? What is currently at the top of the basement? The bottom of the B & B? If so the only way you get an air gap, surely, is to have a dropped ceiling and air-bricks into that void, preferably at least 4, diagonally opposite to ensure adequate cross-vent. But we need to know more, like what is the 'insulation status' of the basement, and of the room above? Is the floor insulated and screeded above the B & B? Enough Qs; do you have pics and accompanying words?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300679#Comment_300679 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300679#Comment_300679 Thu, 09 Mar 2023 19:13:41 +0000 kaicasswell
Above is a kitchen / dining room with a proposed floor make up of pir insulation and screed on the beam and block
The basement will be a music room and I want to make the ceiling as sound proof as possible. I’ve built all this myself and the architects show an 150mm air gap below the beam and block before the plasterboard but I can’t see the point. No air bricks specified by them and the whole thing is being made as airtight as possible.

Both basement and kitchen diner have extract and supply by mvhr]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300681#Comment_300681 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300681#Comment_300681 Thu, 09 Mar 2023 19:32:28 +0000 kaicasswell http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300682#Comment_300682 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300682#Comment_300682 Thu, 09 Mar 2023 19:38:03 +0000 kaicasswell http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300684#Comment_300684 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300684#Comment_300684 Thu, 09 Mar 2023 20:31:27 +0000 djh Posted By: kaicasswellAbove is a kitchen / dining room with a proposed floor make up of pir insulation and screed on the beam and block
The basement will be a music room and I want to make the ceiling as sound proof as possible. I’ve built all this myself and the architects show an 150mm air gap below the beam and block before the plasterboard but I can’t see the point. No air bricks specified by them and the whole thing is being made as airtight as possible.I can't see any point in an air gap. Why not ask them what the purpose is? I'd have thought you want some acoustic insulation in the gap between the ceiling and the beam and block floor and maybe something more massive than regular plasterboard for the ceiling. Ideally you want the ceiling supported separately from the beam and block - resilient bars will go some way towards that. I think you can get acoustic hangers to support the ceiling from the beam & block. You might also want some acoustic isolation treatment above the beam & block to reduce impact noise, as well as or instead of thermal insulation. It all depends how much crossover between the music room and the rest of the house you can tolerate. Think about the doors too. And obviously the MVHR ducts.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300688#Comment_300688 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300688#Comment_300688 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 10:48:28 +0000 Nick Parsons
All this gets into potential issues of airborne noise vs structure-borne noise, which I know a hell of a lot about on the problem side from dealing with a lot of flat conversions in the past, but nothing definitive or certain on the solution side.

Agree with djh about isolation, and I think I would avoid connection of the ceiling to the B & B altogether. I wonder if there is some sort of resilient mounting you could use for ledger-beams which then carry the ceiling on joists mounted in joist-hangers.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300689#Comment_300689 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300689#Comment_300689 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 11:08:47 +0000 djh Posted By: Nick ParsonsI think I would avoid connection of the ceiling to the B & B altogether. I wonder if there is some sort of resilient mounting you could use for ledger-beams which then carry the ceiling on joists mounted in joist-hangers.I'm pretty sure there are suitable components but I think the devil is in the detail. It all depends how serious Kai is. It might be worth getting an acoustic consultant to take a look and recommend a solution for the particular circumstances. We don't even know whether the main problem will be loud music from the basement interfering with people in the kitchen, or kids running around the kitchen interfering with delicate chamber music in the basement. Or something completely different. ]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300693#Comment_300693 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300693#Comment_300693 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:04:27 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary
B & B floors are standard over here (except timber frame construction) The normal floor is reinforced concrete beam, filled with full depth blocks, 5 cm concrete over and 2 cm render under. This construction is very sound deadening and I would be surprised if you needed any other sound proofing. Before you go to the expense of a sound deadening ceiling perhaps a sound trial to see if anything is needed.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300695#Comment_300695 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300695#Comment_300695 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:10:27 +0000 kaicasswell Thanks for the comments and if I get a solution that works I will post a video……. As long as the screams from the basement don’t reach upstairs no one will ever know about the hostages. 😳]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300703#Comment_300703 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17774&Focus=300703#Comment_300703 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 20:08:08 +0000 djh Posted By: kaicasswellI’m speaking to some sound proof specialists and they are talking about genie clips and resilient bars. Also the multi layered plaster board.That sounds like a good start. We had no waste plasterboard to dispose of from our house - because I stuck it all on the back of other plasterboard inside the walls to add more mass; I fixed it with AC50. Another product I also found useful was self-adhesive mass layer (mass-loaded vinyl). That went around soil pipes before boxing in and in some other places.

I agree that rough testing as you go along will be helpful in deciding how much you need to do. It all gets more difficult once you've finished and decorated!]]>