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Products: Any recommendations for a good green product for untreated cedar decking?

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorkaren38
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012
     
    Hi everyone. It's my first time here - and my first time building a deck!

    We are using untreated cedar decking boards, and are looking for an excellent green product to treat/seal the timber.

    What would you recommend?

    Many thanks
    Karen
  2.  
    Nothing?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012 edited
     
    Probably the greenest cleaner is soft soap and water and a deck scrub plus lots of elbow grease. If the deck is new you won't be cleaning for a while and as for "sealing", just leave it, Cedar will weather down to a dull grey and any surface coating is unlikely to be anything more than a short tem fix. It will of course accumulate green algae especially if you live in the country, but a little bit of bleach into the soapy water should help. If you are hooked on that nice fresh cedar red/gold colour then you'll be applying "coatings" for ever, nothing will last. There are cleaners, restorers, and deck grip surface coatings on the market, but as for their green credentials I couldnt say, not very good, I would guess. Incidentally Cedar wouldn't be my first choice for decking,- good luck.
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012
     
    I echo the comments above.

    Why did you choose Cedar? Not a great choice for decking due to its softness.

    Why treat/finish it? It will only require ongoing maintainance. Cedar should be sufficiently durable to last long enough without a presservative.
    • CommentAuthorWMS
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012
     
    owlman,

    why
    • CommentAuthorpmusgrove
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012
     
    About to build a bit of decking and after a problem with warping oak planks was thinking of using cedar. What is recommended for a 20 year life and zero maintenance (other than an annual clean).
    • CommentAuthorkaren38
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012
     
    Thanks all, that's very helpful.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012 edited
     
    I've specified homegrown cedar decking, grooves machined, untreated, no probs whatsoever, not too soft. Cedar (like the doug fir structure) is classed as 'moderately durable', i.e. thoroughly durable as long as it is ventilated to dry out after a wetting. Recommended.
      2009-07-13 154med.jpg
  9.  
    What timber would you recommend Owlman/Timber? I am about to start a decked area (softwood due to cost).
    Thanks,
    Gusty.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012
     
    It depends on the depth of your pockets. Part of my ambivalence towards cedar for decking especially larger areas is that its such a nice clear wood for cladding etc it seems a shame to stick it on the floor where it will be subjected to the worst of treatments and weather. Its gorgeous colour wont last and after a couple of seasons it'll look just like any other mucky decking covered in birdsh... and leaves. The tropical hardwoods are a no-no which leaves any of the other softwoods pine, fir, etc., which will have to be pressure treated or Accoya, acetylated wood. Temperate hardwoods are a possibility but you may pay a premium price and then be dissapointed with eventual movement unless you select carefully which will again rack up costs. If cost is the bottom line then you really don't have much option but to choose treated softwood, go for it.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012
     
    Personally I steer clear of decking. There is a reason the pirate captain makes the hands scrub the deck all the time.
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012
     
    Gusty - your choices are whitewood or redwood

    I would go for a preservative (pressure impregnated) European Redwood.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012 edited
     
    I think owlman's made a pretty gd case for cedar! - once you let go of the fact that it will discolour like anything else (but not quite like perennially nasty treated knotty pine!).

    Cedar being homegrown ought to be cheap but sadly, like doug fir, it's merely medium price - but it certainly scores on transport miles, local employment and other Transitiony virtues.

    Lately I've been taking my doug fir rafters etc green, which helps price greatly; I see no reason why decking shouldn't be fitted green too.
  14.  
    Larch? I've had a bit of locally-grown stuff lately (Derbyshire) which seems to be coming out at about £10/cu ft planked. It's going to be my windows soon. CAT used a lot of untreated larch as cladding and even roofing.
    The only doug fir I could source round here when I needed any was excruciatingly expensive!
    • CommentAuthorkaren38
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2012
     
    Hey Tom that's a beautiful deck. I love the proportion of the grooves to the depth of the wood :) Thanks for the laugh CWatters.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2012
     
    Why thankee Karen
  17.  
    Thanks all. I agree, lovely deck Fostertom.
    • CommentAuthorqeipl
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2012
     
    Posted By: pmusgroveAbout to build a bit of decking and after a problem with warping oak planks was thinking of using cedar. What is recommended for a 20 year life and zero maintenance (other than an annual clean).


    European larch. Heartwood only (no sapwood). Dressed (on the top side at least).
    Much harder wearing than cedar.
  19.  
    All I can find is pine locally :cry:
    • CommentAuthorqeipl
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: gustyturbineAll I can find is pine locally


    Where in the country are you?
  21.  
    qeipl,
    Mid Wales on the coast.
    • CommentAuthorqeipl
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2012
     
    Posted By: gustyturbineqeipl,
    Mid Wales on the coast.


    I don't know the area but if you can find a sawmill that's regularly cutting larch you should be able to get them to cut what you want. They should be able to dress it too, but if not any joiner's shop with a decent thicknesser will be able to do it.
    • CommentAuthorfinny
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2012
     
    I could point you towards a good mill for larch.. north or south of Aberystwyth?
    • CommentAuthorneelpeel
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2013
     
    Bit of thread resurrection...
    I'm looking to build a 40sqm deck soon and am hoping for a maintenance free hardwood solution. Well, at least in terms of coating/staining. I don't mind a quick clean now and again.

    Been looking at local sawmills but they struggle to supply various hardwoods. There are suppliers on t'internet selling 'Yellow Balau' at reasonable price. Looks fantastic and is supposed to be hard wearing, but obviously I don't want to be chopping down rainforests. What questions should I be asking and should I trust the answers?
    Are there sustainable sources of such timber?
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2013 edited
     
    I wouldn't recommend grooves to top side of decking as they get filled with gunk, decreasing durability, and provide less surface area for grip, especially when wet. Grooves to the underside increase ventilation where the decking sits on other timbers and the smooth face to top dries quicker after getting wet.
    • CommentAuthorseascape
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2013
     
    Neelpeel - hope it's not north facing - green slimy slip hazzard!
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2013
     
    You don't need hardwood for durability - any softwood classed 'semi durable' will do fine indefinitely, exposed, untreated, as long as it's in a position to drain and dry - which a deck should be. Only if sitting in a puddle is 'durable' necessary. Semi durable includes doug fir, cedar and maybe larch (not sure - the laTTER IS GREAT FOR BOARDED CLADDING (sorry caps) but not 100% sure about decking).

    Larch is in copious supply right now, due to tragic tree disease epidemic.
    • CommentAuthorSprocket
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2013
     
    > What questions should I be asking and should I trust the answers?

    There are very few honestly sustainable hardwoods. I would mostly stay away from them where possible.
    If you must have hardwood look for FSC (really certified, not just claimed) and avoid the fancier names.
    Even in european sourced timbers I would look for PEFC.
    If it's not local and not certified but called sustainable then it almost certainly isn't.
    And No, you generally can't trust the answers.
    We have a FSC hardwood conservatory but it was very hard to find. Got b*llsh*t everywhere (even from quite big names, and saw lots of fake products at garden shows) until we finally found someone trustworthy. I'm happy it is all good safe timber but it has still done huge miles.

    I really like the sound of the locally sawn local timber. I'd want to go talk to the sawmill people in person - that sounds like fun though. Don't forget thicknessing/finishing for decking though - will be cheaper if sawmill or installer (or yourself) can do it.

    I am hugely impressed with Tom's decking and commitment to local fir for rafters. I have to ask though, for untreated roof timbers what is the risk of rot or beetles, longevity etc

    We had a large-ish area of decking to do so went with acetylated wood (Kebony, like Accoya). We really wanted low/no maintainance. I think it was expensive though.
    • CommentAuthorSprocket
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2013
     
    Ah - I missed the question mark. Seriously, that was (should have been) a question.

    > I have to ask though, for untreated roof timbers what is the risk of rot or beetles, longevity etc
    ?

    Some of you folks see a lot more old timber in-situ than I do. You have seen how it holds up.
    I wouldn't know larch if I came across it but I like the idea of making good use of surplus local real wood. But we take pressure treated timber for granted (well, I do).

    There is some 200+ year old oak (I think) in our house. Some of it is rock hard. Some of it is dry and crumbly. I don't know why though.

    Just how much difference does it make if timber is untreated?
    How bad is the risk of wood-boring beetles and other nasties?
    If you find a local source of larch and want to use it for eg. rafters, is it possible+practical to get it pressure treated?

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