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    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2014 edited
     
    Has anyone used John Guest brass manifolds?

    What fittings did you use at the threaded ends?

    I phoned John Guest and was advised to use these couplers:
    http://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/john-guest-speedfit-brass-171/speedfit-female-coupler-3333.htm
    http://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/john-guest-speedfit-brass-171/john-guest-speedfit-brass-3326.htm

    But, as you can see by the photos, the coupler threads are longer than those on the manifold, resulting in an unsatisfactory connection.

    Here I was thinking I was buying into a system!!
  2.  
    Shevek, it's not right but neither is it wrong: the female coupler screws up tight against the rubber seal (so what's the problem!?) and the male one would need PTFE thread anyway - so what if it looks less than perfect! Your contractors must love you......

    It is important that the manifolds join to each other correctly but it looks like they would; if they didn't that would be worthy of complaint.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: Gotanewlifeit's not right but neither is it wrong

    If you're buying into a system you'd expect it to be right though, no?

    the female coupler screws up tight against the rubber seal (so what's the problem!?)

    Instead of butting the end of the thread internally it forms a step and leaves thread exposed inside the pipe, resulting in unnecessary drag. Maybe not a big deal but if it's a system you'd expect this not to be the case; you'd expect them to optimise it with a continuous internal barrel.

    and the male one would need PTFE thread anyway - so what if it looks less than perfect!

    If the thread lengths matched it could be sealed with the o-ring (see attached photo). Again, maybe not a big deal, but if it's a system you'd expect they would have thought this through.

    Your contractors must love you......

    I'm doing my own plumbing!
  4.  
    I am using Speedfit manifolds and a variety of other fittings depending on the direction of the feed pipe. The 'O' ring makes the seal and the locknut takes up any slack. I also thought it would be a system with all the necessary fittings! I just searched around until I found what I needed, bit of a pain though.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2014
     
    I phoned JG again and they said they make the brass couplers but not the manifold. They "get them in".

    They then suggested a plastic female coupler instead, but couldn't offer a male version. In any case plastic thread on metal thread doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

    So pretty useless really.

    Interesting too that there don't appear to be an images online of one of these brass manifolds actually connected up to JG pipes at the threaded ends.

    So my mistake was believing I was buying into a system.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2014 edited
     
    Thanks Peter. Standard female and male irons is one approach but it seemed weird to me to go to all this trouble to fit a plastic pushfit system only to then connect the manifolds with compression fittings.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2014 edited
     
    I've now spoken to JTM Plumbing*, who were far more helpful than John Guest. He went and found that the 22MC (3/4) version (which I think is parallel instead of tapered), which has a shorter thread and so fits snuggly onto the female end of the manifold up against the o-ring:
    http://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/john-guest-speedfit-brass-171/john-guest-speedfit-brass-3330.htm

    So that just leaves the other end with a bit of thread exposed inside the pipe, which I think I can live with. Won't ever be using JG again though.

    * I highly recommend JTM by the way. The other day I ordered some bits off them at 3:33. It was despatched at 3:45.
  8.  
    So if not JG grn what? Was planning on the same approach as Shevek but still have time to change
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2014 edited
     
    I haven't had a good look at the other systems; Hep2o, Floplast, Marley Uponor, Polypipe. Probably Hep2o or Polypipe.

    Personally though, I'll stick with copper next time.
  10.  
    I wanted a tight 90 degree elbow and couldn't find a suitable Speedfit fitting. It would be so much easier if they produced a range of fittings.
  11.  
    If you stick to BSP threads, compression fittings and plastic pipe everything is available, it is only when you stray into a 'system' that things get imperfect. Caleffi is becoming available in the UK, top of the range stuff, super professional, expensive but not compatible at any level with anything else even simple BSP fittings have a 'catch'.
  12.  
    We are obviously well spoiled in NI, with independant small plumbers merchants.
    I have bought and used a mix of Hep2o type pipe, copper pipe, compression fittings, push fit fittings etc etc, with a wheen o BSP Iron fittings mixed in.
    I would be choosy about the quality of the brass/compression fittings I would purchase though, there is some proper rubbish out there.
    If they look right, they are right, quality of finish to the brass and machining tolerances etc.
    No mysteries, cept getting the Wrisbro underfloor manifold to seal where it met the BSP Brass threaded fitting, or whatever was supplied/recommended, that was a proper time wasting frustrating bollox.
    Finally resorted to tow (flax fibres) and Boss White.
    That worked.
  13.  
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: PeterStarck</cite>I am using Speedfit manifolds and a variety of other fittings depending on the direction of the feed pipe. The 'O' ring makes the seal and the locknut takes up any slack. I also thought it would be a system with all the necessary fittings! I just searched around until I found what I needed, bit of a pain though.<div class="Attachments" id="Attachments_207304"><ul><div><img src="/forum114/extensions/InlineImages/image.php?AttachmentID=5213" alt="Manifold2.jpg"></img></div></ul></div></blockquote>

    How can the locknut and "O" ring combination effect a seal, there is nothing sealing between the locknut and the threads it is turning upon.
    To my mind a flawed set-up.
    Or have I misunderstood?
    Marcus
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: orangemannotHow can the locknut and "O" ring combination effect a seal, there is nothing sealing between the locknut and the threads it is turning upon.
    To my mind a flawed set-up.
    Or have I misunderstood?

    The thread stops either side of the o-ring, so the o-ring seals against the barrel, the locknut and whatever you're screwing onto it.
  15.  
    But if, as inevitibly they do, the "O" ring spreads outwards, and leaves the threads, what stops the water escaping.
    Nope, failing to explain what I understand.
    I will attempt to post a sketch next week.
    A "big pour" on for Friday and a heavy day at work tomorrow, plus screed sticks still to set tomorrow evening.
    cheers
    m
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2014
     
    The locknut has a lip on it that stops the o-ring from spreading out.
  17.  
    And thereby forces it into the bottom of the thread profile, I presume?
    A Neat solution, if so designed/configured.
    cheers
    Marcus
    PS
    The "big pour" saw 123.5m2 covered in 90mm thick of 25N/mm2 premix
    I am knackered, first bloody lorry turned up 1.5Hr late which had a knock on effect, then the Sun came out, nice and bright an hot.
    I will be gui stiff tomorrow, not being used to such exertions.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeSep 4th 2014
     
    A John Guest engineer dropped by to come talk about this little problem. He admitted the brass manifold wasn't designed to work together with JG fittings and that neither the female nor the male brass couplers were a good fit but that that the female coupler in particular was a problem (even the shorter threaded one).

    He suggested putting all the manifolds on the ground floor or teeing off just before each manifold to feed the next one. So we're going to go with the later option. It adds more connections, increasing the potential of leaks, but it's the least worst option.

    Seems to me this whole sanitary manifold plumbing is a new fangled thing and JG thought they better get in on the action by buying in a product. Half-assed way to go about things. I'm sure they could design a far better product themselves but cutting corners seems like the rule rather than the exception in the building industry.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2014 edited
     
    Most plumbers mix and match all day long , It's usually what's to hand that gets used.
    I think striving for exactness is not necessarly worth the energy that you're putting into it in this particular case.

    When I've used jg manifolds it's been in the HW cylinder cupboard . I've come off the cylinder (or cold feed) in 22-28mm copper as that good and sturdy and forms well and gone into the manifold with a 22mm compression to male3/4 using boss white/ptfe etc (a correctly made thread seal will never leak) this hold the manifold in place.
    Then off to the outlets in 10-15mm in one length if I can, running it like you would a cable.
    this to me is the benefit of plastic . Ok one or 2 more joins in the airing cupboard (where they can be seen) and much less under the floor where they cant.
    Horses for courses etc.
  20.  
    Exactly. Any BSP thread can be joined with any other BSP thread, just give me 2 whole thread lines, some PTFE string (Loctite 55 is very, very good) and a bit of blue threadlock and it won't leak....ever. I accept the extra turbulence but the effect pales into insignificance compared to the rest of the route. There are compatibility issues with manifolds but on the outlets, stick to one make (as you are) and you'll be fine.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2014 edited
     
    I've found a way forward that I'm satisfied with but it's still silly that I have to add an additional t-junction to make it work when John Guest's own website says "One of the biggest benefits of a manifold plumbing system is that it is possible to have no joints in the pipe runs."

    What they need to do is design their own manifold in plastic or brass that just works with their own fittings. How hard can it be?
  22.  
    If JG's manifolds aren't any good (but the rest of their 'system' is) is there any reason not to use someone else's manifolds?

    eg - http://www.emmeti.co.uk/products/sanitary-manifolds (though they seem to have a compression fitting for the pipe).

    Still looking for advice on the best push fit plumbing system - I see PolyPipe offer 3 options of their own.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2014
     
    Posted By: GotanewlifeExactly. Any BSP thread can be joined with any other BSP thread, just give me 2 whole thread lines, some PTFE string (Loctite 55 is very, very good) and a bit of blue threadlock and it won't leak....ever.

    Triton just replaced the valve on my handwash unit because it had been fouled so it wouldn't turn off because my plumber didn't read the installation instructions which say not to use any sealants on the joint.

    Fortunately for me, the unit developed a fault at the same time where it tripped the RCD whenever we turned it on. So the serviceman had to replace the can as well and didn't charge me for the visit.
  24.  
    So it couldn't have been a parallel BSP thread without a rubber washer then - never use anything on a joint designed for a rubber washer and of course RTFI!

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