Green Building Forum - Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:30:05 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302250#Comment_302250 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302250#Comment_302250 Mon, 03 Jul 2023 09:59:17 +0100 fostertom
After a petrol-head lifetime car-wise, and a fascination even for getting the best out of 2-stroke strimer/chainsaws, I now have an aversion to all that fossil machismo, incl my beloved Fiats, all gone, tho we still have the little IQ, the monster ML320 caravan-tractor and the Lawnflyte mower. But I now can't bear the thought of the Stihl strimmer! A strong battery strimmer, please.]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302252#Comment_302252 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302252#Comment_302252 Mon, 03 Jul 2023 11:09:04 +0100 djh Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302255#Comment_302255 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302255#Comment_302255 Mon, 03 Jul 2023 12:41:56 +0100 Simon Still
We've Makita power tools but I've only used Dewalt garden kit and it feels at least equal in quality. For 18V stuff you can buy adaptors on eBay to use one brand's tools with another batteries (the tool just wants a pair of connections to 18v) so you don't NEED to buy all the same brand (and if you buy from somewhere like FFXtools theres no price penalty from buying bare tools and whatever batteries you need rather than 'packages' of battery/tool/charger. Adaptors add a little bulk but not a major issue EXCEPT some of the 54v tools put the battery in a 'pocket' for better weight distribution rather than hanging it off the bottom or back.

For chainsaw you're definitely looking at 54v batteries (but they also work on 18v tools). The Dewalt chainsaws, brush cutter and hedge trimmer are all excellent in use.]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302256#Comment_302256 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302256#Comment_302256 Mon, 03 Jul 2023 15:01:52 +0100 fostertom Posted By: Simon StillFor 18V stuff you can buy adaptors on eBayHey that's news - no longer 'you can print your own'!

Esp
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295460091785?hash=item44cacb3789:g:~WUAAOSwQ8ZjuU0R&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4PIQSvOVX%2BbjNN37bgeyjUIEUxiu%2BdvpEkx0gMsSfN6ps0AxyUupY%2BfhbdfhVZveO%2BPRG7Ra6FuPX5h7Z5mx9tjxmlA%2FCn6OaCs15jLXvVv%2FJV8B%2BkzgnyApiovQQJpadmxYu6XEzeCfIY%2FJVZMnj%2BExxVWm4v7xS6XALw22m1bIwkSQLbBxVF6k2zeJVuJV40sOLcPFCkIv3aUA2bEIM47Aaz7oB7HkC%2Bxrr0RtLdcFV%2Bf3BglXjFLIRUqsO%2FY06IG9asz%2BzK2%2FNtgOOtzolxjYKCat9I6oRmpesFc8P1S%2B%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4ae2cCjYg
for adapting 20v Lidl/Parkside to Ryobi 18v One+ - how can that be? Would the Ryobi tool tolerate that?]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302257#Comment_302257 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302257#Comment_302257 Mon, 03 Jul 2023 15:43:26 +0100 Simon Still https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125795479655?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=hzrlyxuktry&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=fz0qwEikRN2&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY)

20V is marketing nonsense (it's normally 20V MAX). Likewise 10.8v = 12v MAX. Someones covered it on another thread but all these batteries are made up of a number of standard cells. You can 'overcharge' them or something to briefly get a higher voltage but it's exactly the same.]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302258#Comment_302258 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302258#Comment_302258 Mon, 03 Jul 2023 16:15:50 +0100 fostertom Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302262#Comment_302262 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302262#Comment_302262 Mon, 03 Jul 2023 19:33:33 +0100 revor Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302263#Comment_302263 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302263#Comment_302263 Mon, 03 Jul 2023 20:15:42 +0100 jms452 Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302265#Comment_302265 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302265#Comment_302265 Tue, 04 Jul 2023 02:32:04 +0100 cjard Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302268#Comment_302268 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302268#Comment_302268 Tue, 04 Jul 2023 09:17:05 +0100 PeterStarck Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302270#Comment_302270 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302270#Comment_302270 Tue, 04 Jul 2023 10:21:05 +0100 WillInAberdeen
Some marketing departments try to sell you this as "20V" but that tells you more about the quality of the company than about the quality of the cells! It's like marketing a lead-acid car battery as "13V" instead of "12V" - technically true in some circumstances, but a bit sneaky.

Usually the lithium cells are 18650 size (18mm dia x 65mm long) or 21700 size, which are made in billions around the world for EVs, electric bikes, etc as well as for tools. They hold between 1.5-3.5Ah each, so 5Ah or 9Ah tool batteries use several sets of cells in parallel. That also means bigger Ah batteries can deliver more current and so run tools with more powerful motors.


Not all 18650 cells are created equal - some have better Ah or lifecycle than others - same as with AA size cells. The tool company will buy in cells with a price/performance to suit their brand.

An adaptor that allows a cheap battery to physically fit into an expensive tool, will not make the cheap cells perform or last as well as the expensive ones - that might/not be an issue for you.

Many batteries have a 3rd or 4th terminal so the charger (maybe even the tool) can interface with the battery internal temperature sensor or cell management chip. These are brand specific so there is a risk that a 3d printed physical adaptor should not be used to charge cheap batteries using a different brand's charger, might not charge or could overheat.]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302273#Comment_302273 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302273#Comment_302273 Tue, 04 Jul 2023 10:59:37 +0100 revor Posted By: WillInAberdeenmight not charge or could overheat.

I am very wary of charging any batteries. We would not leave a phone charging overnight or if we are not present. Although I have on occasions forgotten to take my cordless drills off charge.
I was sensitised years ago when both Nikon and Sony got caught out with laptops and cameras catching fire. There was a case last week of a house fire resulting in fatalities as a probable result of charging a bike battery indoors.
https://news.sky.com/story/fire-that-killed-three-probably-caused-by-e-bike-charging-officials-say-12914139#:~:text=A%20flat%20fire%20that%20killed,Sackville%20Close%20on%20Friday%20morning.]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302275#Comment_302275 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302275#Comment_302275 Tue, 04 Jul 2023 11:52:21 +0100 Simon Still Posted By: WillInAberdeenLike Simon said - lithium ion chemistry gives you ~3.6V per cell, so a battery pack with 5 cells in series gives ~18V.

Some marketing departments try to sell you this as "20V" but that tells you more about the quality of the company than about the quality of the cells! ,,,,


Not all 18650 cells are created equal - some have better Ah or lifecycle than others - same as with AA size cells. The tool company will buy in cells with a price/performance to suit their brand.

An adaptor that allows a cheap battery to physically fit into an expensive tool, will not make the cheap cells perform or last as well as the expensive ones - that might/not be an issue for you.

Many batteries have a 3rd or 4th terminal so the charger (maybe even the tool) can interface with the battery internal temperature sensor or cell management chip. These are brand specific so there is a risk that a 3d printed physical adaptor should not be used to charge cheap batteries using a different brand's charger, might not charge or could overheat.

Yes, I'd not recommend trying to buy cheap batteries (and my experience of anything non-OEM aftermarket has been dire) but those adaptors do mean you're not completely tied into one 'ecosystem' of tools.

The (better) adaptors all have a sensible warning about not using for charging. I think you're right that there might be a bit more interface to the tools as well once you get to 54v stuff where current draw is going to be much higher. (and I'm not sure how the '54v batteries are configured to also work as 18v? - as simple as a different connector on the battery or something more clever internally?

and lastly I looks like the marketing departments at the good co's have lost the battle - Makita have started printing 20/12v on stuff - if your competitors are doing it on the shop shelf you lose out unless you play the same game.]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302276#Comment_302276 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302276#Comment_302276 Tue, 04 Jul 2023 12:20:06 +0100 revor Posted By: Simon Still'54v batteries are configured to also work as 18v? - as simple as a different connector on the battery or something more clever internally?

I think there is a regulation somewhere that you cannot have a 54 volt battery and the tool has to be configured to take 18V multiples. Think it is to do with taking batteries on planes and fire risk.]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302277#Comment_302277 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302277#Comment_302277 Tue, 04 Jul 2023 12:20:25 +0100 fostertom Posted By: Simon Still54v batteries (maybe can be?) configured to also work as 18v
I got it that 18v can be dodgily boosted to 20v - but from 12v??
Posted By: Simon Stillstarted printing 20/12v on stuff
]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302278#Comment_302278 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302278#Comment_302278 Tue, 04 Jul 2023 12:34:06 +0100 WillInAberdeen
Obvs a physical adaptor that hooks a different battery up will not support all this stuff - maybe will treat the battery a bit unkindly - buyer beware!]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302279#Comment_302279 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302279#Comment_302279 Tue, 04 Jul 2023 12:52:46 +0100 djh Posted By: fostertomSo now I learn that
Posted By: Simon Still54v batteries (maybe can be?) configured to also work as 18v

I got it that 18v can be dodgily boosted to 20v - but from 12v??
Posted By: Simon Stillstarted printing 20/12v on stuff
54 is 3 times 18, so I suppose the reconfiguration is just switching the cells into a different configuration. The 18V to 20V is simply a question of how much charge is pushed into a battery. Voltage 'boosting' in general uses sometimes clever electronics to change supply voltages up or down as required; they're known as DC-to-DC converters.]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302280#Comment_302280 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302280#Comment_302280 Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:41:40 +0100 fostertom Posted By: Simon StillMakita have started printing 20/12v on stuff]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302284#Comment_302284 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302284#Comment_302284 Tue, 04 Jul 2023 16:31:54 +0100 djh Posted By: fostertomYeah but claiming 12v boosted to 20v is a bit of a stretch?
Posted By: Simon StillMakita have started printing 20/12v on stuff
But if you bother to check you'll see Makita have "Makita 10.8V / 12V MAX lithium-ion CXT 'Slide' style battery" and separate "18V LXT" batteries. So they don't appear to do as claimed.]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302306#Comment_302306 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302306#Comment_302306 Wed, 05 Jul 2023 12:52:21 +0100 Simon Still Posted By: djh
Posted By: fostertomYeah but claiming 12v boosted to 20v is a bit of a stretch?
Posted By: Simon StillMakita have started printing 20/12v on stuff
But if you bother to check you'll see Makita have "Makita 10.8V / 12V MAX lithium-ion CXT 'Slide' style battery" and separate "18V LXT" batteries. So they don't appear to do as claimed.

I'd seen Makita now branding their 10.8v batteries as 12vMax, and Dewalt branding their 18v batteries as 20v Max and assumed Makita were doing the same but it seems not yet]]> Update on best brand for strong battery garden tools? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302323#Comment_302323 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17886&Focus=302323#Comment_302323 Thu, 06 Jul 2023 18:35:17 +0100 tony