Tue, 19 Dec 2023 07:59:21 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247941#Comment_247941 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247941#Comment_247941 Tue, 04 Oct 2016 22:16:52 +0100 criscasa
As this forum has proved really helpful so far, and there is a real bottleneck of issues in my current renovation job, I'm posting another issue in case anyone has helpful feedback. No worries if not poss as I fear I may be "over-using" the forum at the moment!

Basically, I need to put down a new floor that is resistant, super low maintenance, insulating vs cold, resilient against humidity and fits budget. Going through all the options, the only solutions seem a synthetic parquet (laminate or vinyl). This breaks my heart a bit as obviously not great to be bringing more plastic into the world, but more eco options like wood or lino don't fit the criteria.

Plus there are obvous concerns about the off-gassing: formaldehyde with laminates; phthalates, lead and cadmium with vinyl. Especially as have small child.

The parquet guy showed me:

A laminate which meets the European E1 standard for formaldehyde.

A vinyl which rates A+ with this label: https://www.moso.eu/sites/default/files/label/icon/Icon_A%2B_Emissions%20dans%20l%20Air%20Interieur_FR.svg
WHich I think is this : http://www.eurofins.com/consumer-product-testing/information/compliance-with-law/european-national-legislation/french-regulation-on-voc-emissions/french-voc-classes/

I still feel uneasy about using plastics, but then I just realised we are installing a new kitchen and I haven't even begun to check into the components of that (MDF, glue, finishes etc).

Anyone know these rating systems and have a view on it?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247944#Comment_247944 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247944#Comment_247944 Tue, 04 Oct 2016 22:46:34 +0100 criscasa http://www.eurofins.com/consumer-product-testing/information/compliance-with-law/european-national-legislation/french-regulation-on-voc-emissions/french-voc-classes/

.... and I can't actually see phthlates mentioned in the further info. Maybe it's under another technical name or I'm missing it (v late and tired here). Will try and call the contact point tomorrow to get more info.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247946#Comment_247946 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247946#Comment_247946 Tue, 04 Oct 2016 23:22:35 +0100 EasyBuilder http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247948#Comment_247948 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247948#Comment_247948 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 01:37:29 +0100 the souter http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247949#Comment_247949 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247949#Comment_247949 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 07:22:34 +0100 criscasa
Rubber: been advised its not tough enough for this kind of area. It's a ground floor directly off street so it's a combined entrance hall, kitchen, dining, sitting and passage way. It gets a lot of wear and tear. Also been advised its expensive.

Thanks!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247955#Comment_247955 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247955#Comment_247955 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 09:44:32 +0100 barney
Look at Modopave - or I think now Altro Nuvola Stratus range

You won't wear that out in a hurry - but yes, all good quality flooring has a cost (break it back down to a cost per month of ownership - that gives you a reasonable comparison)

Lino (look for marmoleum) is also an excellent natural product - but it does need some care

Barney]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247957#Comment_247957 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247957#Comment_247957 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 10:47:05 +0100 owlman http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247965#Comment_247965 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247965#Comment_247965 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 13:54:40 +0100 criscasa
Will try to double check rubber source ...]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247969#Comment_247969 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247969#Comment_247969 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 14:04:11 +0100 criscasa http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247977#Comment_247977 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247977#Comment_247977 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 16:52:50 +0100 criscasa http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247978#Comment_247978 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247978#Comment_247978 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 17:06:14 +0100 barney
It won't stand up to stubbing fag butts out on it - most floors don't

Memsahib doesn't wear particularly pointy heels but ours stands up fine to those she does wear

For chairs without obvious buttons or points under the legs, again it's generally fine

From the sound of it you need a heavy duty industrial floor with epoxy resin coating if you want it to stand up to serious abuse

Regards

Barney]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247990#Comment_247990 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247990#Comment_247990 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 21:06:03 +0100 criscasa
Not talking about people deliberately stubbing out fags on floor but sometimes we have parties you know ;-)]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247994#Comment_247994 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247994#Comment_247994 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 22:10:21 +0100 barney
I've dropped the occasional fag on it without too much drama

And you're worried about VOCs !!

Barney]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247996#Comment_247996 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=247996#Comment_247996 Thu, 06 Oct 2016 00:00:15 +0100 criscasa
Re fags vs vocs, I don't smoke but it's a good point (as well as being a good joke!) in that I'm not sure how much I should be concerned about the vocs given all the other stuff in the immediate environment, not to mention what the new kitchen units are presumably made of.

Re wearability and care that rubber requires, I'm checking online and I'm seeing very conflicting reviews with some people saying it requires more care than Lino in their experience and several people talking about having to replace floors after few years, worst decision ever made etc. Thing is I really can't afford to change this floor for the foreseeable future.

I think I'll do a last ditch investigation into rubber and sustainable wood whilst also have a last comb through of budget to see if there is anything more I can eliminate. God knows how u treat wood vs woodworm in a non toxic way ! If you have any tips to hand on non toxic wood treatments let me know.

Bona nit!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248003#Comment_248003 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248003#Comment_248003 Thu, 06 Oct 2016 07:31:31 +0100 criscasa (A) I want to reassure u all that it's only an area of about 14sqm so u are not sanctioning some massive plastics investment. Despite time pressure on several levels, I'm also delaying end date by taking this time to do a final assessment for more eco solution so the good will is there.
(B) my question still remains about the emissions certificate for the vinyl - is it a good'un ? Are phthalates included? Typically my little boy has been off sick last couple of days so haven't been able to call the certification office yet.
(C) how can I assess if vinyl option more/less damaging to environment than laminate? They seem to be different materials so they don't carry same certification for comparison (as far as I can tell).

Cheers]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248064#Comment_248064 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248064#Comment_248064 Fri, 07 Oct 2016 13:21:22 +0100 Rick_M http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248066#Comment_248066 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248066#Comment_248066 Fri, 07 Oct 2016 13:56:14 +0100 Doubting_Thomas
Altro do a Polyurethane/Epoxy product that would be fairly robust. From experience it can scuff up from the initial shiny 'wet look' finish, particularly with metal legged furniture, but is then a very tough floor surface.

http://www.altro.co.uk/Resin-flooring]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248083#Comment_248083 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248083#Comment_248083 Sat, 08 Oct 2016 12:40:07 +0100 criscasa
My understanding with resin is that it's the same issue with micro cement and tiles - too cold (see above).

Re wood, spoke with a builder contact who put down wood floor on his ground floor and it's already separating after a year or so! His area isn't even as humid as mine and he spent 70euro psqm.

Re rubber, spoke with Altro and dalsoupe and they both didn't recommend rubber for kitchen - unless u can be really on the case to pick up anything dropped asap esoecially oily stuff. My dad drops stuff all the time and can't bend over properly to pick up with ease ...

So back to synthetic parquet ! The parquet guy has recommended a parquet which has checked out for vocs and phthalates ... Just waiting to hear about metals...]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248142#Comment_248142 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248142#Comment_248142 Sun, 09 Oct 2016 16:52:51 +0100 djh http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248251#Comment_248251 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248251#Comment_248251 Tue, 11 Oct 2016 16:37:13 +0100 Rick_M http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248282#Comment_248282 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248282#Comment_248282 Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:46:06 +0100 cjard
Low VOC polyflor/karndean/amtico ? Vinyl flooring is predominantly oil and salt, recyclable and very long lasting - dont forget to factor the usable life time of the material into any environmental impact assessment]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248291#Comment_248291 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248291#Comment_248291 Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:22:04 +0100 Doubting_Thomas
Regarding your concern over 'cold', the resin is typically around 90 microns to 3mm maximum so will not offer much thermal resistance to whatever temperature your slab is as it's more like a protective varnish. Clearly a 25mm thick solid timber floor would add more thermal separation but it's also true that a layer of insulation and a covering (screed, sheet flooring etc.) would be even better.

What is the scope for building up the floor?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248304#Comment_248304 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248304#Comment_248304 Thu, 13 Oct 2016 04:22:47 +0100 criscasa
Vinyl has now been ordered as deadline came. I couldn't find "safety flooring" concept in Spain but the parquet we ordered is often used in medical spaces and checked out for vocs and phthalates so maybe it is a "safety floor"?

Anyway yes I'm hoping the hard wearingness of vinyl will count in environmental impact.

Will add insulatory layer underneath (anti humidity fibre sheets over plastic sheet) so hoping that will make a difference.

Re ventilation, yes. I guess that's another point towards extracting air as opposed to bringing air in.

Re bamboo. I've had that before and it gets dented too easily.

Re wood, as I mention, I checked with someone who used wood in their ground floor nearby ish (in a less humid area even) and it was already separating after a year or so despite the fact the owner is a builder himself and got good wood.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248637#Comment_248637 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248637#Comment_248637 Sat, 22 Oct 2016 15:02:07 +0100 Sandbank http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248860#Comment_248860 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248860#Comment_248860 Wed, 26 Oct 2016 05:33:43 +0100 criscasa Cheers :)]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248898#Comment_248898 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248898#Comment_248898 Wed, 26 Oct 2016 14:08:28 +0100 djh http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248912#Comment_248912 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248912#Comment_248912 Wed, 26 Oct 2016 16:32:44 +0100 Mike1
https://seacorkfloor.com/cork-flooring-for-homes/cork-for-showers-and-tubs/
https://seacorkfloor.com/cork-decking-for-boats/]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248927#Comment_248927 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=248927#Comment_248927 Wed, 26 Oct 2016 20:17:26 +0100 djh Posted By: Mike1Cork can be used as a shower floor covering, and even for boat decking, so certainly shouldn't be discounted - though too late in this case, it seems...
I have to admit that even though I'm well aware of cork as a floor material, I never even thought to consider it as a possibility for our wetroom. Oh well, you live and you learn ...]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=249248#Comment_249248 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14593&Focus=249248#Comment_249248 Tue, 01 Nov 2016 18:20:04 +0000 criscasa
Thanks for your messages.

> Cork does have quite long history of use in humid areas in the necks of bottles and suchlike!

Haha i see your point! Although I've seen some pretty battered looking cork ends come out of bottles!

> Cork can be used as a shower floor covering, and even for boat decking

That's very interesting. Will check it out for future reference. If it doesn't need to be treated with something toxic to make it waterproof that's a very interesting option.

The other reason I discounted it is that a friend of mine has cork floors and he has to do ongoing maintenance on the floor. Couldn't deal with that level of maintenance in this case.

But i love cork, especially as locally produced in catalunya.

Best]]>