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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2014
     
    I'm looking at Larch Cladding for the exterior of our new build, specifically horizontal cladding using a narrow channel profile. So far the quotes are all quite high £25/m2, can anyone suggest where I can get more modestly prices larch as I have a whole house to clad and I am trying to work to a budget!

    Also, I'd like to fix the cladding with any surface nailing, anyone got any recommendation on technique or tools to help secret nail (or clip) without damaging the rather expensive boards??
  1.  
    How about a local forester with a mill? I know a farmer in Derbyshire who manages woodland, and who will cut to my sizes, but I have just seen your 'narrow channel profile' point....
  2.  
    I've no helpful suggestions unfortunately, but I'd be interested in hearing any suppliers that pop up, as I'll be asking for quotes for the same thing in a coupld of weeks.

    If you're in Scotland, we could batch the order for a discount?
    • CommentAuthorArchmoco
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2014 edited
     
    I used Siberian larch, a bit more stable than the Scottish. I got mine from local builder merchant 94x22mm profiled board was £1.90 L/m. I left mine untreated, but as a rule of thumb double the cost if you want them treated. Any off the bigger builders merchants will source it for you.

    Need to use stainless steel fixings, I choose screws so I could get behind the boards again or replace if needs be.

    I've PDF timber cladding docs in the office pm me your email and I'll email them if you want
      image5.jpg
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2014
     
    If you're looking for a "crisp" architectural line then IMO go for Siberian Larch. It's generally a better quality than UK larch, harder, denser, and closer grained. It's mainly imported in two grades, 1'st clear quality, ( unsorted ) and a more knotty grade known as ( sawfalling ). As Archmoco said you can pick it up at a reasonable price, usually sold by the l/m. The resin content is high so shouldn't need treating, many let it weather naturally.
    Can you clarify the fixing you want to use?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2014
     
    I though larch was mostly wiped out by disease recently, creating a quarantine-felling glut, then now dearth and prob nothing in future?
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2014 edited
     
    Thanks for all the feedback so far.

    Divorcingjack, unfortunately I'm not based in Scotland, I'm actually in Cumbria. I did find one saw mill in Scotland recommended on here as being very helpful and on the plus side it was run as a not for profit by a charity. http://www.scottishwood.co.uk/index.htm

    Archmoco, I've PMd you with my email, thanks for the offer of the information.

    Owlman, I am after a fairly crisp look to the outside, but not too crisp, so maybe smothish sawn rather than PAR, natural rather than shiny finish. Regarding the fixing, we visited a build last weekend and they had gone for the stainless steel surface nail option, so they had rows and rows of nails all neatly lined up, the next one we looked at had no visible fixings and this is the one we liked.
    • CommentAuthorwoodgnome
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2014
     
    Archmoco
    Where does the water from the roof go?
    Cant see any gutters.
    • CommentAuthorArchmoco
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2014
     
    Owlman,

    The facade is layered the timber is supported on bracket set about 300mm off the face of the blockwork, this allows me to hide all guttering and downpipes.
      photow.JPG
  3.  
    Triassic

    Do you know how they managed to to have no visible fixing?
    • CommentAuthorArchmoco
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2014
     
    I also incorporated two IBC containers for rainwater collection, possitioned to be connect to the WC when I get the time, still have over flows and a lid to fit. You can see the differenct in the colour of the Larch cladding, the cladding below the water containers was fixxed 3/4 weeks ago, while the house was clad end of last summer.
      photao.JPG
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2014
     
    Nice building concept - 'Architectural'?
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: calvinmiddleTriassic Do you know how they managed to to have no visible fixing?
    I think it's either secret nailing through the back of the groove in the T&G or stainless steel clips which slot into the groove and is then nailed into the batten - currently not sure!!

    If you Goggle 'cladding clips' and look at 'Images' you will see that there are a variety of different designs available.
    • CommentAuthorArchmoco
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2014 edited
     
    Thanks, yes maybe not the most green of buildings, the construction is a bit of an experiment. I've always wanted to use fibre cement and timber cladding and this gave me the opertunity

    The external walls are traditional 300mm blockwork with additional PIR 50mm insulation to inside and outside with the cavity pumped. The whole building is Fibre cement sheeted and timber clad. I had planned to go down the route of timber frame, but it was all too expensive, and with the blockwork I was able to do all the design & building control applications myself. Although the concrete block is not ideal choice, it is quarried a couple of miles down the road.

    It was built to a budget and the design was loosely based along Passivhaus principles but i had never attended it to meet the standard. Now im in, and I have checked the requirements, with a still a little work to the airtightness I am considering if I should try and get Passivhaus accreditation.
    • CommentAuthorArchmoco
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2014
     
    I'll take some closer photos tonight, but the boards are just screwed throught to the 4x2 uprights with 50mm stainless steel screws. I did have to ensure the boards were pre drilled as the torque of the screw driver would snap the softer stainless steel screw heads
    • CommentAuthorArchmoco
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2014 edited
     
    Some close ups
      image6.jpg
      image7.jpg
      image8.jpg
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2014
     
    Posted By: ArchmocoOwlman,

    The facade is layered the timber is supported on bracket set about 300mm off the face of the blockwork, this allows me to hide all guttering and downpipes.
      photow.JPGhttp:///forum114/extensions/InlineImages/image.php?AttachmentID=5087" >


    A nice, clever solution, I like it; 10/10:bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: TriassicThanks for all the feedback so far.

    Owlman, I am after a fairly crisp look to the outside, but not too crisp, so maybe smothish sawn rather than PAR, natural rather than shiny finish. Regarding the fixing, we visited a build last weekend and they had gone for the stainless steel surface nail option, so they had rows and rows of nails all neatly lined up, the next one we looked at had no visible fixings and this is the one we liked.


    The "smoothish sawn finish" whilst achievable may have a bigger price tag that straightforward PAR. The Russian stuff will be brought in rough sawn and to get the finer sawn finish you're after "may" involve taking thicker stock e.g. 60mm (that's more expensive) planing it all round first then splitting on a band Re-Saw with a slightly finer blade and a slow feed, all of which may rack up costs because it's unusual.
    Regarding secret nailed or screwed finish a good machine shop will discuss a bespoke moulding esp. if the amount makes it worthwhile. A good design will mean you won't have to bother with clip fixings
  4.  
    Archmodo, I wouldn't mind those PDF's you mentioned, I was thinking about siberian larch. It looks stunning on your house. Are those internorm windows?

    I'll send you a whisper with my email,

    Cheers,
    dj
  5.  
    Triassic, thanks for the steer about that Sottish mill, they are half an hour down the road from me, so I may pop in over the next few weeks and have a look at what they have.

    Best of luck with your sourcing :)
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2014
     
    Posted By: divorcingjackTriassic, thanks for the steer about that Sottish mill, they are half an hour down the road from me, so I may pop in over the next few weeks and have a look at what they have.
    I used those guys for my waney edge Larch. They can do Kiln dried DAR as well.

    On fixing, I used Galv nails IIRC but drilled a slightly oversize hole to allow for the shrinkage. The overlapping has one problem - leaves gaps for wasps and the like :sad: The problem with waney edge is the cupping - some goes one way some the other. Straight edge can all be set with the cup going the right way.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2014
     
    Waney edge larch
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2014
     
    That's nice too. Best used to be waney elm, which had really exagerated edge features - but no more, sadly - and larch going toward extinction too.
    • CommentAuthorhairydude
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2014
     
    I've today received a quote from russwood for Scottish and Siberian larch. We have a mix of 150x22 vertical 'board on board' style and 138x18mm bevel-edged horizontal style.

    Scotlarch board on board is £15.25/m2, Siberian is £22.56
    Scotlarch bevel edged is £18.50, Siberian is £25.79
    (All ex vat)

    They're very knowledgeable and helpful and will send you samples.

    FWIW, the samples I received confirmed that the Siberian latch is a bit denser. I queried longevity and they stated that the Siberian will last a little longer but the Scotlarch is good for 40-60yrs untreated so people mainly choose based on looks (Siberian has less knots and is generally available in longer lengths) we like knots, don't need long lengths and like the idea of home grown timber (and cheaper solution) so it's Scottish larch for us.


    They offer a vacuum coating process if you need it - seems to slightly more than double cost of the timber based on our quote (my wife wants a stain finish so I'm going to be sending next couple of weeks with a paint brush in my hand:cry: )

    I think I'll give that other sawmill a call in the morning to compare costs - thanks for the tip.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2014
     
    Posted By: hairydudemy wife wants a stain finish
    Left mine untreated to weather naturally.
    • CommentAuthorhairydude
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2014
     
    @ borpin, final colour of materials was never mine to debate! 4 coats of sadolin here we come!
  6.  
    @Archmoco

    I like that roof :-)

    Ferdinand
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: Archmocoalways wanted to use fibre cement
    When I specd fibre cement as the cheapest of the cheap(apart from Onduline), prices were triple corrugated iron! What did you find - make, source etc?
    • CommentAuthorArchmoco
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2014
     
    fostertom,

    Once I had decided on a modern shed aesthetic it was a material I was always going to use, I like the corrigated effect. I wanted to use materials that I could work with. Metal rusts and drums in the rain, or there are issues cutting etc, or if you go down standing seam route too expensive and specialist. I needed a material A joiner and myself could work with. I did a few projects in university with fibre cement and always wanted a chance to use it.

    I've used onduline on a couple of agriculture type buildings and it's great but a bit lightweight, I would be surprised if you would get more than 15-20yrs out of it, on my own house I wanted something abit more solid, and my site is quite exposed.

    Regarding suppliers I use Cembrit. I had no experience with them but they had a new profile B5 that I liked, not too small and not too large. Marley have a couple of profiles, the smaller profile was too expensive and Cembrit had a supplier close by so I went with them. I had a look at a Belgian product that a large building supplier was bringing in, it has a great paint technology, the best of the lot, but the corrigation/profile was just too large and I was keen to use a UK product.

    Cost wise I would need to dig out the receipts but each sheet was approx £25, I will check. I had never worked with the product before but I'm surprised how strong the material is, but I'm told it will become more fragile over time. It's also a fairly heavy sheet and there were some interesting moments on the scaffolding when the wind picked up!
    • CommentAuthorArchmoco
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2014
     
    A couple more photos hoping to add sedum to flat roof soon
      image.jpg
   
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