Anybody know if there's any subsidy for the construction of large (1 MW or so) onshore wind turbines? Or offshore, for that matter. There are various forms of subsidy for their actual electricity output (via guaranteed prices and ROCs) but are there any others? My understanding is that there were years ago but they're long gone but it'd be handy to have a proper reference.

Doubt it - the new Env Sec confirms that disparagement of onshore wind is a Tory vote catcher, as well as a support for their big-biz nuclear mates. Big new Cornish scheme just turned down.

I must say, much as I like all the elegant turbines I see as I trundle down the A30 (means you're really in Cornwall now), there has to be a limit - miles of nothing between isolated wind farms. If they were on every Cornish hilltop, that would be a blight.

OK, but any authoritative sources of information on subsidies other than those supporting the price of the electricity produced?

That makes sense but it's hardly a subsidy - just the wind farm operators paying for connection at a price related to the actual cost of having a distribution service provided to them taking into account the other grid users in the neighbourhood.

Relatedly, there's also the payments windfarms get when the grid turns down the electricity they offer if the grid doesn't have the capacity to distribute it but a) that applies as much to other producers and b) it's not really a subsidy, just a matter of contractual agreement.

Background is that I had an argument with somebody about this. I'm going to avoid that particular person in future but there are a lot of people around here who are anti-windfarm and I want to be sure of my facts and sources if it comes up again.

Limiting peek output also reduces connection costs and may not have that much effect on reducing total output depending on the site. After all we do need power on days that are not blowing a gale.

That's a prime case of unintended distortion via incentive/loopholing - and one that government could readily mend.

It's so simple a story that the press could easily run it - the scandal that government squanders the national benefit that should arise from the public spirited 'suffering' that huge turbines impose on communities.

Yes, but what about the non-electricity related subsidies?

Spoken to a couple of people (in England), and there are now no grants for capital expenditure. Not even regional.
It was suggested that the best method for funding (for smaller turbines, less that 10 2MW) is community finding and initiatives.
They may get funding for other areas of the installation, say training and education/visitor centres.

If you are on the FITs (tends to be for the smaller stuff) then you get the money on generation. You can enter the auction market, but are more at the mercy of the weather and demand, but does pay better overall. But that is really for the large developers who can afford to 'buy in' at 20p/kWh if they need to (basically domestic rates).

There has been a fair bit on the radio today about our generation (because we are low on spare capacity again).
What annoys the hell out of me is when they say that RE is unreliable i.e. the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine.
These two are forecast very well (most of us know when it gets dark, well we did last week). They give the impression that one cloud or a bit of a stiff gust kills all RE generation completely.
It is also worth mentioning that the woman that runs the National Grid says there is not a real problem at the moment, it is tight, but not fatal. She only had a few minutes to explain that they are negotiating with generators to run in stand-by mode, large users to reduce load. It is not as if we only have one power station and if that goes wrong we are snookered.

Posted By: ringiCornwall is a special case, as there is a lot more electricity used in Cornwall then generated in Cornwall. The cables feeding Cornwall are also mostly at capacity and very expensive to upgrade.

Wrong.
The bulk transport down here is excellent. Plenty of capacity, part of the reason there is a 900 MW gas plant in Plymouth. The end of the line at Hayle is especially robust as there used to be a power station there, they never built the nuclear one though, it is to radio active down here to start with. But the Wave Hub (what a joke) can easily supply to it (but that is just a testing ground).
There is some trouble with over capacity on some tiny rural cables and transformers, but WP do a very good job at upgrading where they can/need to.

If I recall correctly the issue with Cornwall is the connection to the “English” network and hence up to the midlands power stations. I believe that the Plymouth gas plant was one part of reducing the problem.

For many years no one could get planning approval to build new power stations in Cornwall, hence the flow got very unbalanced. So anyone wishing to generate in Cornwall got a very good deal on connection charges.

Not sure about wind turbines but there are allowances for businesses investing in capital equipment. For example as the equipment wears out and reduces in value you can offset the loss of value against company profits. I've no idea over what period a turbine can be written off.

Edit: Looks like 8% a year..

http://www.energyclever.com/index.php?solar=capital-allowances

"The enhanced capital allowances do not apply to Solar PV and Wind Turbine systems as they are generating equipment,not energy saving equipment. Instead a solar PV or a Wind Turbine system may be claimed under the new annual investment allowance of £25,000 (April 2012, previously £100,000) ) and then under the special rate writing down allowance of 8 % (April 2012 )."

Grants in Scotland: Part 2

Spoke to my mate who works for an energy quango in a regional office in Glasgow, England.
Apparently there are some grants up there, one for £6m has just closed.
Most is administered though the Energy Saving Trust Scotland.

CARES: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/scotland/Communities/Community-And-Renewable-Energy-Scheme

Warm Homes Scotland: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/scotland/Take-action/Get-business-funding/Warm-Homes-Fund

REIS: http://archive.scottish.parliament.uk/business/committees/enterprise/inquiries/rei/ec04-reis-scottishchamber.htm

Community Energy Scotland: http://www.communityenergyscotland.org.uk/index.asp

Scotland has an aim to be powered by 100% renewable energy, just turn off Glasgow should help.

Yes, my mate did say electricity not energy, but he is Irish so never really now what he is saying.

Posted By: fostertomGlasgow, England

They lost the popularity poll.
You never heard an American talk about their vacation to Scotland, England then!!

GB is the ISO country code for the UK. The UK (GB) and Ukraine (UA) agreed not to argue over “UK”. That's why the UK is shown as GB or GBR at the Olympics, etc, even though there might be players from NI.

http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes/country_codes

For this reason the Ukrainians are a bit teed off that the UK uses .uk for its Internet top-level domain - it's a historical accident left over from when the Internet was mostly academic and JANET (the Joint Academic Network) used .uk. AFAIK, the UK is the only country not to use its ISO country code for its TLD though, of course, only a few US sites are actually in the .us domain.

In my view anyone getting a subsidy to construct a wind turbine which subsequently is not used should pay the money back. I regularly pass a wind turbine located outside Runcorn Station in Cheshire and in the three years it's been there I've never seen it turn a blade.

Edit . A quick search suggests the turbine was installed in 2009 by Virgin Trains, so come on Virgin why is your turbine not operational?