I'm at the stage where I need to start a short list of potential 3G window suppliers and having spent the last 3 hours looking at various web sites I completely confused.

I suppose the starting point must be what the windows should be made out of - timber, timber composites, Alu-clad and GRP and that's before I even start to consider colour, style, openings etc.

So far I've looked at Nordan, Idealcombi windows, Russel Timbertech, Munster, Valfac, Ecoplus and Howarths.

How did you shortlist suppliers and what should I be looking for in a window and window manufacturer?

I'm not even at the stage of having quotes, I'm trying to get together a list of companies worth asking for quotes.

For instance, I've just read that it's a waste of time asking Munster Joinery for a quote, as they don't deal with self builders! So can anyone make any recommendations, or name those not worth asking!?

Surely it has to start with your ideal aesthetics and functionality.

Then compare costs between two or three suppliers ... if these are too high for your budget then you'll have to compromise on one / or other.

I was just about to make that compromise, when a kind member of this board put me on to a manufacturer in Poland and a year on we just couldn't be happier ...

I have managed to get a quote off munster and it seems the most reasonable for PAssivehaus level windows, about £400 incl vat per m2 for aluclad PH insulated frames. Triple glazed. I gave them the name of my totally building unrelated business and they seemed happy with that! What's the Polish company Scrimper and do they do PH windows?

Triassic - I think you are doing a new build? If you are something to throw into the mix is Code For Sustainable Homes. One thing I never considered on the widows is that I needed Secure By Design approved windows to get the points I needed. If your assessor has assumed you'll get points in this category you'll need to make sure your window company has the relevant certificates. I'm not sure what going to direct to Poland would mean for this.

That said I'm getting 3G Alu-clad from Velfac. I liked the aesthetic, they are a good price and have been quick to respond on quotes and queries. I haven't actually placed my order yet as we are still doing the foundations.

At the front of my house I need sash windows as I'm in a conversation area. Based on advice from this forum we contracted Polish Interiors who sent a sample windown to my architects office. We found them quick to reply and friendly, but the sample window was quite knocked about and consequently didn't look that good. Ultimately I've gone with Berecco for the sash windows.

If you have architect plans I found the window companies were happy to quote from those.

Munster are a pain to deal with... but the product is great for the price!
We have a 'contact' that does respond, but they are notorious for bad communications...

Good luck

I'd produced my shortlist having read this and other forums and looked specifically for suppliers of ali-clad windows that offered a RAL colour that met my National Park planning requirements. Interestingly I've had a number of whispers suggesting other potential suppliers, some of whom do not get a mention here, or in the other place and some of whom appear to be nothing more than agents for large European manufacturers. Personally I'm always wary of middlemen!

I hadn't realized that shortlisting potential window suppliers would be so challenging.

I used EcoContract Ultra from Green Building Store. I had them install them too, as one was a bay, and if someone wants to mis-measure, I'd like it to be them! (They didn't, anyway!). V pleased with them, but on moist overcast days the external condensation stays on the 3G all day.

Posted By: Triassicsome of whom appear to be nothing more than agents for large European manufacturers

That sounds like a criticism, but you didn't state UK manufacture as a criterion and indeed some of those you mention are non-UK European manufacture and the UK arm is simply an agent for the European company. So I'm not sure what your point is?

Posted By: slidersx200Window shopping has been one of the most time consuming and least enjoyable parts of our build so far.

Same here, windows were the hardest component to source, suppliers taking months to respond or not responding at all. Start early, push them hard, demand details and take no cr@p

Some highlights: Munster refused to deal with me as I admitted I was a self build (actually said "no we do not want your business"). Russell never replied despite multiple attempts. Valfec took ages then quoted 2G rather than what I asked for (a sales ploy as 3G was expensive when I finally beat the price out of them?). IdealCombi were the slowest - took 8 months to respond by which time I already had windows fitted. Most UK uPVC suppliers didn't know about serious 3G (despite that many extrusions can squeeze it in).

We wanted outward opening windows, this ruled out many makes including Internorm. They were very helpful so got a quote anyway (frightening, but excellent product).

To satisfy planning colour requirements we were attacted to alu-clad too. Managed to get a 10% variation in supply costs for Rational alu-clad from different agents (direct was most expensive, go figure). Decided against it in the end as felt that grot would get trapped over time between the cladding and the timber leading to rot. The merely 5 year warrenty did not reassure.

Despite the difficulties I would recommend sorting out a feasible window supply (but not ordering) before the plans are set, definitely before the openings are built. Different products have different restrictions on max dimensions etc., window opening styles, so avoids disappointment later. But also makes it hard to get comparable quotes.

Posted By: TriassicWe had assumed that Ali-clad would be a low, or no maintenance option, given that I'm getting older and don't fancy having to repaint window frames every 5 years, or climbing a double extension ladder!!.

The alumininum is low maintenance AFAIK, at least I don't think it needs painting. But with Rational it is clipped onto the timber with drainage slots to allow water to flow between wood and alu, and air to then dry it. I imagine that works well when new, but what about after? Anyone else noticed how corners outside (window frames, under plant pots, on the garden seat etc.) collect soil-like grot? I figure those slots will get filled with this and trap damp between wood and alu leading to hidden rotting.The effects of corrosive sea air on the finish also worried me. I could be wrong but no one could show me a 10 year old installation or older to prove longevity. It could be fine, I just got scared.

So what did you got with in the end?

Afraid to say uPVC (why do I feel I should have whispered that?). A battle to get the 3G spec and colour I wanted, but finally found a co-operative (competent) supplier and the price nailed it (£7k rather than £13k). The Rehau extrusion (along with other makes, but not all) can do the job, you just have a struggle finding someone that will order the colour of plastic and manufacture them in the UK. There are issues: the frames are more heat loss than wood; the narrow glazing bead makes the glass a nightmare to install (lots of muttering from the glazier and 2 bust glazing units that had to be replaced); the green credentials of the materials is dubious (why I feel guity, but less environmental damange than having a child, and I have cycled for 35 years!). But for me the low maintenace is worth it. The 26 year old uPVC units on my old house also gave me confidence, despite city acid rain etc. the frames come up good, hope modern uPVC is as good. Also we insulated the reveals and installed to minimise the amount of visible frame thus reducing heat loss.

Would be interesting to hear from anyone with alu-clad long term.

Posted By: GreenfishTo satisfy planning colour requirements we were attacted to alu-clad too.

I don't remember any problems regarding getting arbitrary RAL colours on timber windows. Even with ali clad, the inside is timber that they will spray whatever colour you want. We went with ali clad purely for the maintenance angle. I'm still waiting for some aluminium colour matched trims that they forgot (between two windows coupled directly together) because of lead times on the spraying.

Despite the difficulties I would recommend sorting out a feasible window supply (but not ordering) before the plans are set, definitely before the openings are built. Different products have different restrictions on max dimensions etc., window opening styles, so avoids disappointment later. But also makes it hard to get comparable quotes.

I'll second that. There were several windows where we had to adjust the dimensions of the openings as we were building, because the as-designed width couldn't be manufactured in the widths we wanted. Luckily for us, we discovered it in time and a last minute adjustment of the plans didn't cause any knock-on problems.

Alu clad inward opening triple glazed has been used in Germany, Austria etc for decades with great success. Most windows used on mainland Europe open in and are based on German designs using triple compression gaskets, drained and vented systems and hardware from the likes of Roto that have been designed to cope with 3G weights. All windows will need some maintenance/cleaning but the likelihood of dirt build up under the aluminium to create a route to rot is very unlikely.
Much like car manufacturing there is much outsourcing and sharing of technology. The Chinese are even involved.
We had some aluclad windows from blue oak windows a few years back which they make in Poland and they are doing the job well, they are outward opening casements and the price was fair, about £350 per sq m

<blockquote><cite>Posted By: scrimper</cite>ompany is called Polish Interior ... I should doubt they do PH windows, but might be wrong about that.

I dealt with Pawel Bulacz who couldn't have been kinder or more efficient ...

Good luck!</blockquote>

I also would recommend Polish Interiors highly. The windows were at least a third less than in the UK, were very well made (we had 3G hardwood sliding sashes with toughened glass) and came in spot on dimensionally

They made a small error on one of the windows and remade it without any debate

What I would say though - particularly if you are designing your own windows is;

- make sure you understand all the Building Regulations in detail (as of a year or so ago PI weren't up to speed on them)

- their initial sketches for quoting purposes are not exactly the same as the final product (this is the same as all window suppliers). If good fenestration is important to you then you will need the CAD drawings. Understandably they are not keen on producing these until they are pretty sure of receiving an order

Yes they do