Green Building Forum - Ecobuild

Ecobuild

djh — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:36:23 +0000

So has anybody visited Ecobuild yet?

I guess it's a little bit early to ask. You'll still be there!

I'll be going tomorrow so I'm interested in what's worth seeing.

Ecobuild

DarylP — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:44:30 +0000

I hope to be there tomorrow...

I wanted to hear Greg Barker personally, to see if I could ask him anything pertinent, but it seems he is just spouting the 'party line'.....

Cheers..

Ecobuild

djh — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:57:23 +0000

Well politicians aren't on my list of things worth seeing, I'm afraid. Unless they're sat in stocks made from FSC-certified timber and being pelted with locally-grown organic produce.

Ecobuild

Joiner — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:09:43 +0000

Ecobuild

DamonHD — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:32:41 +0000

Was there today (and hope to be again tomorrow). Will try to do write up tonight and post link.

Lots of PV pr0n, less LEDs than I expected, and lots of interesting tech. Went and pestered Romag and Daikin amongst others! Got to speak to senior/useful people...

Rgds

Damon

Ecobuild

pmusgrove — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 18:52:10 +0000

So who owns Romag now?

Ecobuild

Timber — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:30:40 +0000

I was there, although on duty, so didn't get to see as much as I would like.

I noted that there was a LOT of PV, and also a lot of wood stoves. I liked the large US imported outside wood boiler sheds, very gadgety.

Some interesting stuff there though, although not sure how a car engine coolant distrutor fits into the whole 'eco' bit.

I also noted that there was eco and green attached to all sorts of stuff that was neither.

Ecobuild

Timber — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:31:55 +0000

Oh and to add,

The DLR is a pile of plop! In NO way able to cope at chucking out time (so I went to the pub for an hour instead).

Ecobuild

DamonHD — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 21:34:34 +0000

Hadn't noticed the stoves.

Romag is now owned by Gentoo, the first Linux distribution to own an entire PV manufacturer! B^>

Rgds

Damon

PS. I went mid-morning to avoid the rush and the DLR was packed anyway...

Ecobuild

SteamyTea — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 22:52:19 +0000

Just think that the DLR always has room for one more in the drivers seat.

Posted By: TimberI also noted that there was eco and green attached to all sorts of stuff that was neither.

Does that mean the the term 'sustainable' has been dropped.

Ecobuild

SilverSpray — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:42:15 +0000

I was there all day yesterday and plan to be there for the next 2 days.
I'm early stages (draft / outline drawings) on my first self build.

Lots of information.
Lots of companies looking for distributors / networking with other companies.
- Seems to be lots of Chinese PV companies, quite a few Italian and other European companies.

The show is massive compared to what I expected.

3 general threads
- politicians etc. talking about the state of building and the eco / green etc. side of that in talks
- talks for self builders that are mixed in terms of quality and the amount of stuff I already know (although even then little gems / realisations)
- the stands looking to sell their wares, where more than I expected seems to be trade.

So it's superb, but bigger than I expected and not as much for the self builder as I expected.

Ecobuild

nbishara — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 22:56:39 +0000

I only meant to go for a day...and ended up going back for two (good plan, SilverSpray) and just about covered everything I wanted to see. I agree as above; an awful lot of PV (and heat pumps) and very little LED (didn't see much wind, come to that). I was going for ventilation this year, but I would have liked to have been able to buy led bulbs. In my experience, shopping online tends to result in "warm whites" that are really "torture room blue". There were a few manufacturers with some good looking bulbs that they weren't selling (I know, I know, it's not the ideal home show (thank god), but still...).

Seminars were useful as usual and always too much that I wanted to see - but I think that they'll be online soon?

Call me sad, but my top tip is the pastiche on "never mind the bollocks", badges..."Never mind the greenwash, we're the aecb". I had to have one :-)

And I also enjoyed the chap trying to flog the concept of sustainable balconies. We wondered if they were knitted out of hemp, or whether he just meant to say "suspended".

There were the normal perpetual motion machines, as I think of them: thin foam wall paper that will insulate your house (I don't care if the EST do recommend it; they shouldn't), the voltage regulator that you don't need etc and a lot of dodgy reps happy to talk rubbish, with a few good ones who actually give an honest and informed opinion (trouble is, you have to know your stuff a bit to judge which is which ;-)

Some innovations that will either join the perpetual motion gang or become interesting, like the state change material "thermal battery". I don't think the company have quite worked out how they're using it yet, but they claim that their heat pump run with it has a COP of 14 (yes, I know!)

Oh, and quite a few other state change products actually. Might have been BASF. Thin product that absorbs heat about 23c and releases it below (essentially thin and light thermal mass). They've combined it with clay in a walling product that claims to moderate both heat and humidity. I couldn't help finding it interesting, even though I like to retain my scepticism.

I'm not sure what SilverSpray meant about not being for the self builder so much. If they meant that it's more trade than retail I'd agree, but I do find that companies are generally quite happy to talk to punters and not just those in the building trade - or at least, if they're not, I'm just rather teflon and do it anyway. I like to think people like us have some novelty value - hey, it must be really dull just talking about multi million pound developments all day; my semi must give them a break (or a laugh;-)

Ecobuild

Chris P Bacon — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 10:01:33 +0000

Posted By: nbishara the state change material "thermal battery". I don't think the company have quite worked out how they're using it yet, but they claim that their heat pump run with it has a COP of 14 (yes, I know!)

Any link or company name? A claim like that deserves careful dissection!

Ecobuild

Timber — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:37:27 +0000

I have seen similar things for linings walls. The products I have seen consist of a wax that is melted within the lining when heated. When it cools, it turns from a liquid back into a solid giving the heat it absorbed back out again.

No idea if they actually work though.

Ecobuild

RobinB — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:48:15 +0000

Not sure how up to date this is but try

http://www.energyefficiency.basf.com/ecp1/EnergyEfficiency/en/content/show_houses/UK/07_The_Materials/06_Phase_Change_Materials/Phase_Change_Materials

funnily enough I've considered this stuff for use in shoe insoles..

Ecobuild

djh — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:31:59 +0000

Well, I went for two days, and didn't finish looking at it, and didn't see any of the things you chaps saw!

I forgot my badge on the first day and was very impressed by how swiftly they printed me another.

I saw lots of LEDs scattered throughout the show. Overwhelmed me so I didn't pay much attention to most. All the ones I saw were 60 lm/W jobbies. A man on the Aurora stand asked me what I was looking for so I said 'at least 100 lm/W'. He reckoned that was a few years down the line, and said that he thought LEDs will never be more cost-effective than T5 tubes. I kept a straight face.

The dodgy reps that kept me entertained were those selling new decorative surfaces that are 87% recycled made from aggregates, or ground-up kittens or something. They were all willing to admit that the missing 13% was a binder, and they all claimed not to know what it was. "It's a trade secret", "it's only 13%", "I'm the finance man, I don't understand the technical stuff".

I met Mr Greensteps, and Mr Russell, but the new GBS window was most surprising as it's an outward-opener, and what Mr GBS said was even more interesting - there may be a revision of the PHI window certification rules later this year, with adjustments for different climates.

Ecobuild

Cav8andrew — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:48:09 +0000

Thanks to everyone who went to the show and reported back to those of us who didn't/couldn't. Great to get a feel of whats out there.
djh, the news on the PHI window certification is interesting, would this suggest that more outward opening windows would qualify for classification or at least encourage manufacturers to produce a version of.

Ecobuild

MarkBennett — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:03:02 +0000

I was there for two days and have started adding posts on parts that I found interesting to my blog:

http://hardhouseblog.wordpress.com/?s=ECOBuild

I've still got 11 draft posts to finish up, and probably another half dozen or so that I haven't even started writing yet. Going to be a busy weekend.

Ecobuild

DamonHD — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:54:57 +0000

Yes, me three. Have only started my write-up!

Ecobuild

nbishara — Sat, 24 Mar 2012 22:13:00 +0000

Posted By: Chris P Bacon
Posted By: nbisharathe state change material "thermal battery". I don't think the company have quite worked out how they're using it yet, but they claim that their heat pump run with it has a COP of 14 (yes, I know!)

Any link or company name? A claim like that deserves careful dissection!

Yes, I totally agree! I had a fish about and I think
It was www.blamon.co.uk - that wasn't the company at ecobuild, but the supplier, I believe.

Ecobuild

Ed Davies — Sat, 24 Mar 2012 23:27:51 +0000

This description of how it works is slightly intriguing:

http://new.xsorb.nl/?page_id=18

Ecobuild

Ed Davies — Sat, 24 Mar 2012 23:48:29 +0000

More discussion of the basic physics:

http://www.preheat.org/fileadmin/preheat/documents/intersolar/Ferdinand_Schmidt_Adsorption_heat_storage_current_and_future_development.pdf

Only read the first few pages yet.

Ecobuild

wookey — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 00:41:34 +0000

Hmm, where did you find Mr Greensteps? I was keen to but he wasn't where he should have been - I assumed they'd not turned up. Well, Aurora may not be able to build 100 lm/W LEd lights, but I can. I reckon 102lm/W including an 80% efficient driver unit and 20% losses in the optics. It's hard to measure whether this is actually achieved or not. Approx 8 euros per 300 lumen lamp (including driver).

I saw some interesting talks on refurbishment, 2 lots of 3G PVC windows (rehau and hommeling). GBS passive-grade window that's only 10% more than ecocontract (!)

An awful lot of MVHR boxes, including a couple with heat-pumps in to use the left-over heat, and one from envirovent with no filters (!)

LoCal timber buildings for social housing looked good.

And very few UFH people - I suspect I was in the wrong section.

Ecobuild

Chris P Bacon — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:51:30 +0100

Thanks for the links folks.

The lack of depth or detail in both of those websites, together with claims like "instant payback on installation" doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

I'll consult with someone I know who does a lot of work on seasonal stores to see what he has to say about the tech.

Ecobuild

DamonHD — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:01:19 +0100

Aurora *can* build 100lm/W lamps: I have one of their samples in my kitchen!

"Instant payback on installation", eh? I assume that they do a bank transfer back to your account as soon as the last tradesperson leaves the room, else ASA might be interested in the use of "instant"!

Rgds

Damon

PS. Must do my writeup. Must do my writeup. Must do my writeup...

Ecobuild

DamonHD — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:04:34 +0100

My partly-done write-up is here:

http://www.earth.org.uk/note-on-Ecobuild-2012.html

But I'm likely to be baby-sitting a PV install the rest of today, so this may get no further for a bit.

Note that I took lots of pics of Ecobuild, starting here:

http://mirror-uk-rb1.gallery.hd.org/_c/people/_more2012/_more03/exhibition-business-show-people-stalls-solar-PV-thermal-stores-insulation-glazing-Ecobuild-2012-ExCel-Docklands-London-England-1-DHD.jpg.html

Rgds

Damon

Ecobuild

djh — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:21:10 +0100

Posted By: wookeyHmm, where did you find Mr Greensteps?

Sorry, the best I can do is "you are in a maze of twisty little passages, all different". I think they were somewhere in the middle of the south hall.

Posted By: wookeyrehau and hommeling

That's KÃ¶mmerling. They were on the CWG stand.

http://www.koemmerling.co.uk/ecomaXL/index.php?site=88%20Plus%20System

Ecobuild

James Norton — Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:56:41 +0000

...soooo that time of year again...

always assuming carbon neutral transport etc ( ) anything worth seeing there this year...?

J

(PS on an unrelated note, please feel free to have quick look here to help out a friend of mine...
http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=10151&page=1#Item_4 )

Ecobuild

Timber — Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:38:52 +0000

Yeah, I will be there on duty for my employer again this year. I do hope that I get a decent chance to look around (rarely happens, although I do normally try and sniff out some interesting stuff).

Not really looked to see what sort of new stuff is on show this year, so will have a look online and make a mental list. Anyone else got any recommendations?

Ecobuild

Shevek — Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:39:02 +0000

I'll be going to have a look at Ventive. Stand N2500:
http://www.ecobuild.co.uk/exhibitor-list/profile/5204/ventive.html

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=10153