The Ecological movement, is about far more than simply building sustainable buildings, though a majorly important element,, this is but one facet, of an entire eco - shift, which we all need to embrace, in order to ensure the protection of our environment on a global level.

It is not about selfish gain at the expense of the planets resources, nor is it about the explotaition of its wild life. ( which includes all captive creatures presently used in farming and for entertainment purposes ) It has nothing to do with consumerism, commerce or personal enterprise, either. It is about coming into harmony, with the Earth, along with all other life forms, for mutual respect and co- operation. Without this, there can be no true – Evolutionary progress, collectively, for humanity.

Carry on as you have to date, regardless of the consequences, and the alternative scenario is a seriously dark period which looms ever nearer as we approach the year 2012. There have already been enough prophecies to cover this, probable, event, so I will elucidate no further.

Gervase, you are happy to continue to abuse “ your “ sheep. Only you do not see it as abuse, as you are in complete denial. The road ahead represents a phase of very challenging times for all of us. The decision toward growth is yours, alone, to make. As, indeed, with each and every one of us. Either we be a part of the problem, or a part of the solution. The choice is up to us.

The atrocities, committed in Nazi Germany under the Hitler regime, Bosnia, Tibet, Afghanistan, indeed all atrocities everywhere, are not committed by monsters with three heads, but by ordinary, decent, members of society, people such as yourself who have been brainwashed to consider, their victims, as unworthy, a mere chattel, without sentience or worth. We are, all of us, capable of anything when disconnected from the feelings and true value of others.


In the secret societies that run this world, behind the scenes of the political arena, stand those who regard, we, the people, the common *herd *, as Sheep. The exact term they use is “ Sheeple “. Like it or not, we are considered their property. All six or so billion of us, and, as, with any excess of live stock, a cull is on the agenda, in the none too distant future. These ruling “ Elite “ have been running the show for many centuries. To them we are considered, dull witted and expendable creatures but of use for economical purpose as well as labour force. Does this ring any bells ?

George Orwells , prophetic, “Animal farm “ covers the situation quite aptly. More recent adaptations such as Chicken run and Babe, also reflect a similar theme. Are you really so obtuse that you fail to see where all this is heading , if we do not raise our consciousness, and with this, our treatment of the planet and its creatures to an acceptable level ?


To truly evolve you must first see the connection between all of the life which surrounds you, and how you are an ~ integral ~ part of that whole. This is where the saying “ We are all one “ comes from. As we harm, abuse, deny freedom to other creatures, so we too shall suffer, so we too will receive the same harsh treatment, in one way or another. Everything we do, returns to us, eventually, for all of life is connected….

“ Sheep have an excellent good long term memory, they can remember as many as fifty faces for up to two years and most particularly they have a keen recall of unpleasant experiences.
Sheep may be capable of using the same system (as humans) to remember and respond emotionally to individuals in their absenceDr Keith Kendrick, neuroscientist, Babraham Research Institute, Cambridge “



“ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. “ George Orwell

Having merely scanned the previous threads it would appear that there is some confusion between worst practice, typical practice and best practice in husbandry.

Also the 'by product' issue is relevant to the extent that if the by product is not a driver per se for the original use in this case lamb meat is it still acceptable to use the by product irrespective of the the harm associated with the original use. Could it be argued that the generation of a complimentary revenue stream to the typical farmer actually increases the possibility of best better living conditions.

What do people reckon?

J

PS I would caution against language that could be construed as offensive to other members irrespective of your opinions in their farming practices.

Posted By: SteamyTeaSounds like you are talking about the difference between ecologists and conservationists, I guess that you fall into the later category, no harm in that,.....

A conservationist, me ? I never thought of myself as that before , Sounds a bit ….. tame.
" no harm in that , eh ! Well how about a freedom fighter for the release of the captive spirit in all its manifestations., ? which is more my line …..

Gosh, Godwin's Law invoked in the very first post!
(though I have to confess that I do enjoy organising the odd torchlight procession for my sheep, and have almost got them to bleat the Horst Wessel Lied, but that's as maybe)
Otherwise, I'm all for your ideas, and shall immediately put into effect plans to save the smallpox virus, the anopheles mosquito, the bilharzia parasite and all those other creatures that man has so cynically and cruelly attempted to destroy. We shall truly be one with nature when we're all dead.
As for the Bilderburgers or the Frankenfurters or whatever, the only people I've heard to use the term 'sheeple' are the more fundamentalist eco-warriors; the sort that stridently tell everyone else how to live their lives while their own ideal communities implode in a welter of mutual recrimination, bickering and unravelling baler twine.

delurking to ask whether storm is in fact a troll?

S/he seems completely clueless about building, green or otherwise - but somehow expects everyone to help him/her out of serial messes resulting from said cluelessness, while simultaneously berating all and sundry for not being vegan (or something)....

...... Um.... does this mean you don't like me anymore ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al91hfncfC4

I can't answer for Gervase, but why do you use Ghandi as some kind of sainted trump card in this discussion?

As for the quote "To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. &c" - the fact that Ghandi said it doesn't make it true. Maybe in some abstract suprahuman sense it is true, but from the subjective point of view of the human animal (which is the only point of view we can have) it is sentimental nonsense. The fact that Ghandi said it doesn't make it less nonsensical.

Blimey--------- wish I had not bothered signing in now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: Gervase WebbInsulted plasterboard could well be dangerous, particularly if used in grudge-bearing locations." alt="" src="http:///forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/wink.gif" complete="complete" >

Sheep are, indeed, greatly underestimated creatures. They are also exceedingly tasty.

Gervase, yes, I have just realised the mispelling, Ha, ha, ha,

Now let's get back to a more serious note, shall we ? Your gustatory pleasure does not interest me, and can hardly be used as the basis of justification for the cruel method of tail removal of young lambs, which you habitually indulge. Eat lamb all you want, if that is your predilection. My issue is with the extreme torture which young lambs must undergo whilst they are alive, because of farmers like you who - Choose - to inflict this form of abuse, when there are simple alternative treatments available to combat flystrike that do not cause pain.

I think we have already fully covered the subject - Re - The dangers of Polystyrene. However, you can carry on plugging sheeps wool, by comparison with polystyrene, if you so wish. After all, don’t want to lose any revenue do we !

From a purely personal standpoint, ( quite aside from the exploitation involved ) I don’t consider sheeps wool insulation ideal, the main drawback being, that it, quite obviously, has a strong tendency for infestation.

Makes perfect nesting material, all those cosy little ants and cockroaches. Mmm, nice ‘n snug ! .. come to think of it, you may yet convert me to sheeps wool insulation,…I have a great love for ants !

Yes, the wool can be treated with pesticide, but then, A) You’re left with the problem of outgassing, what kills hardy insects will not do humans much good either. B ) If, however, your immune system can tolerate the fumes. You are still left with the problem that, eventually, the pesticide treatment wears off, then you are stuck with the cosy bug issue once again.



BTW, Gervase,You, still have not answered my question -Ref - Gandhi ????

James, attempting to second guess my gender, again ! Appears to be a bit of a preoccupation with you. If you're so hooked on the idea of a cute and sexy, storm, well hey, bring it on sailor ! I don't mind, if you don't.

Gusty, and others who are offended, inflamed, bored, vexed or are otherwise incapacitated in mind, body or soul, by the subject matter of my words. If you don’t like the thread, don’t click on it !


Jt green, The newbie, lurker. Frankly, I havn’t got time for you, Why don’t you go back to lurking !!!

Posted By: James Norton" alt="" src="http:///forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/wink.gif" complete="complete" >

J'adore les hommes dans ma vie, et, plus encore, la vie dans mes hommes!

We are all sheep of one breed or another

Posted By: stormThe majority of you, so-called , ~ Green , thinkers, on this forum, do not have ANY idea of the real concept

And could you fully explain this concept of yours, otherwise it is heading for a 'did, didn't' debate and it becomes very hard to follow the logic. It does to me sound like Buddhism though.

Posted By: SteamyTea

Posted By: stormThe majority of you, so-called , ~ Green , thinkers, on this forum, do not have ANY idea of the real concept

And could you fully explain this concept of yours, otherwise it is heading for a 'did, didn't' debate and it becomes very hard to follow the logic. It does to me sound like Buddhism though.

Your statement, Steamy, in and of itself , is typical of just how circumscribed in awareness you are, along with the majority, of the uninformed, bleat, bleat, masses out there.

No, I am not a Buddhist,. My consciousness is not confined by any set teaching,, doctrine or religion, mainstream or otherwise. If, however, you are desperate for a label to pin on me, quite simply, I am a freespirit, I think for myself. My being, is universal and unlimited., why should I allow it to be clipped and shrink wraped to fit neatly into the requisite of some man made ideology or system ?

I came into this world, without label and, when it is time for my exist, I will leave similarly “ unadorned “

As for the mention of my appealing to your~ Logic. Well logic is based in human reason, thus it is a severely restrictive tool. You can in no way reach true understanding via human reason, for truth is not something to be gained by way of the intellect. An endless stream of knowledge can abound, in the area of the intellect. Thus the higher the intellect, the more knowledge accrues. Yet this does not, however, facilitate truth, but, rather, blots it out, just as the clouds blot out the brilliance of the ~ Sun.

,

Posted By: storm
Your statement, Steamy, in and of itself , is typical of just how circumscribed in awareness you are, along with the majority, of the uninformed, bleat, bleat, masses out there.

If you're hoping to convert others to your, er, way of thinking, that might not be the best way to go about it.

Posted By: storm...My consciousness is not confined by any set teaching,, doctrine or religion, mainstream or otherwise. If, however, you are desperate for a label to pin on me, quite simply, I am a freespirit, I think for myself. My being, is universal and unlimited., why should I allow it to be clipped and shrink wraped to fit neatly into the requisite of some man made ideology or system ?

You mean, lke facts, the laws of physics or any of those other tiresome and troubling manifestations of reality (including syntax and punctuation)?

For some strange reason the following comes to mind...

Posted By: The PythonsJudith: [on Stan's desire to be a mother] Here! I've got an idea: Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb - which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans' - but that he can have the *right* to have babies.
Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother... sister, sorry.
Reg: What's the *point*?
Francis: What?
Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.