That's simply poor husbandry, and not typical of the way sheep are kept. Rain is not a problem with sheep, although continually wet ground is. I'm happy to say that my own flock has good feet (thanks to well-draining pasture) and access to shelter - although that is only used in the very foulest of weather - and I mean driving snow and howling winds.

Posted By: Jeff BI hardly think the ancient Romans can be quoted as a model of humanitarian behaviour! Early Christians were forced to dress up as sheep before being torn apart by lions in those arenas.

Interesting party, is there a video of it on youtube!

<blockquote><cite>Posted By: Gervase Webb</cite>That's simply poor husbandry, and not typical of the way sheep are kept. Rain is not a problem with sheep, although continually wet ground is. I'm happy to say that my own flock has good feet (thanks to well-draining pasture) and access to shelter - although that is only used in the very foulest of weather - and I mean driving snow and howling winds.</blockquote>






What about Mulesing and tail docking, do you approve ? this abominable practice can cause complete rectal prolapse. I have seen the result, it is a shocking sight to witness. I belief that any and all creatures, kept in captivity, their natural instincts crushed or bred out of them for the various exploitative purposes of man, to be a sacrilege of that life.

Farming methods are acceptable, mainly through public ignorance, and because those who indulge are acclimatized to it, such that it has become an ingrained habit. ( similar to human domestic violence passed down within a familly from generation to generation ) Mankind has many flawed habits, longstanding and incorporated into our culture, this does not, however, make them justifiable.

As I walk past the various herds of clipped castrated and branded livestock where I live, I feel deeply ashamed of my human status, ashamed that I could be part of a society that treats other sentient beings as though they were no more than a sack of flour. I equate the exploitation of farm animals to the centuries of exploitation of negroes subjected to slavery and and other forms of abuse “by their dominating “owners “. Such was, in those days, acceptable to the general public and taken for granted as the “ Norm “ .. Laugh at my words as you may, but the analogy is accurate.

Gervase, I sense you are a man of strong ethical and ecological principles, by no means are you a cruel person, ( not wittingly, anyway ) but a little in denial , perhaps, when, what clearly represents a cherished way of life for you, is criticized Granted it is extremely difficult to alter in what we have grown use to. None of us are perfect or we wouldn’t find ourselves in such a reality.. The majority here, both man and beast are evolving, growing in awareness. We are on a journey, together, to find the truth of who we are. .

The answer to all the woes of this world is really very simple.. No complex political systems or ideologies are needed. It is all about ~ Kindness. Being kind to the Earth and kind to all living creatures, including eachother. Most importantly being kind to ourselves, allowing our hearts and minds to grow. To tread softly, not as a wanton force, through the glory of nature and her abundant manifestation.
.
If we are to one day know True freedom ~ ourselves, we must first afford respect of that right to those forced beneath the oppressive boot of own harsh regime..




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al91hfncfC4

Includes photo of young lamb after it had been castrated and tail docked ( no anesthetic ) with sheers - Mulesling

http://www.veganpeace.com/animal_cruelty/wool.htm

Daily Mail Article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1030897/Farmers-urged-experts-end-cruelty-lambs.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_HCtlu2L98&feature=fvsr

Back to the green building forum, not the green farming forum please-

Whether we agree with it or not the fact is sheeps fleeces are very cheap and like straw a natural byproduct that can be used. My question is what is the long term effect of using wool as insulation and what side effects (bad things that can go wrong) with the product. In other words why should I not use it?

Any thoughts on the above?

<blockquote><cite>Posted By: Gervase Webb</cite>I'd be very surprised if you'd seen mulesing in the UK as it's illegal. As is docking above the ventral folds of the tail which can cause prolapse. Like most stockholders, I dock the tails of my lambs with an elastic band which causes the tail to atrophy and drop off. '.</blockquote>



Mulesling or no, I have seen entrails hanging ......

Go on Gervase, you keep placing those vicious rubber bands around the base of the tails of those innocent lambs, to your hearts content. Drain the blood supply, and let those tails drop, it is called torture. Do that to a human child and you’d be imprisoned. for quite some time.

Whilst you’re about it, why don’t you place one of those bands around the base of one one of your fingers, and let me know how you feel after you have worn it for a few hours. Eh ! ,
.... but then, silly me, its only sheep isnt it.




I have absolutely no need to research further on this issue. I am already well informed, from sources which I respect far more than ever, some spurious document churned out by the pro farming lobby.

Lambs are born with their charming little tails for a reason, if not, they would be born without. Ref - Flystrike, I reject your excuse, of the need for this procedure. If the genetics of the sheep were not tampered with in the first place, their wool would not be so uncomfortably excessive, thus there would be no problem from flies. Even with the problem, there are humane alternatives, rather than removal of the tail. As is usually the case, ~ Man has created the problem, and to remedy this, he adds even further abuse. As the saying goes, “ Two wrongs, don’t make a right “ .

“ To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake of the human body.
I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth. “ (Mahatma) Gandhi



For the compassionate among you, a very worthwhile website

http://www.think-differently-about-sheep.com/

Posted By: joe90My question is what is the long term effect of using wool as insulation and what side effects (bad things that can go wrong) with the product. In other words why should I not use it?

Any thoughts on the above?

There seem to be (at least) two ways of using wool. You get the fleece direct, which should be cheap, but the fleece will be dirty, smelly and in the long term liable to insect attack. Or you buy the manufactured product, which will have been processed so that you can use it like any other insulation material. It should be pleasant to work with and have been treated to resist insects. It will be very expensive.

As far as I know, there aren't any particular downsides to using wool in a suitable dry location. Theoretically it's very appealing as it's a fairly natural product and farmers get b. all for it in the UK. The only problem is the cost of the processed stuff.

Posted By: Gervase WebbWhat sentimental and ill-informed twaddle!
I presume you don't agree with ear piercing, circumcision, hair cutting or nail paring on humans either..

Do you include Gandhi in your sweeping condemnation, Gervase ?
" sentimental twaddle " hardly a well constructed argument .worthy of consideration.


Those who cry charge of " sentimentally " are usually, hard nosed individuals. caught up in their own self created illusion of a cold and empty universe. Sensitivity, compassion is by no means akin to sentiment, indeed it is the antithesis of such meaningless emotion.


BTW , ear piercing, nail cutting, hardly comparable to mutilation of the body by removal of the tail. Tail docking, done without anesthetic is obviously painful Human babies are circumcised, without the use of anesthetic. As with animals, the baby has no voice other than its cry. Who is to weigh the extent of their suffering ?

Posted By: James NortonMight I suggest that this discussion belongs elsewhere...?

J

Thanks James ,