Green Building Forum - Flexible tail Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:29:44 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302492#Comment_302492 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302492#Comment_302492 Sun, 16 Jul 2023 10:12:56 +0100 Rex
When I built the house, did not consider everything at the planning stage, one minor error was not plumbing an outside tap until later in the build.

By that time, I had the interior plumbing in place, and due to the mains pressure being around 6 bar, installed a pressure reducer for the house. But, I took the outside tap from the mains pressure side of the incoming water.

Over the years, the rubbish Hoselock fittings outside have kinda failed and a few days ago, we wasted quite a lot of water as a result of failing to turn off the outside tap. I have fixed that now but would like to install a pressure reducer into the outside pipe. Unfortunately, there is no 'flexibility' in the interior 15mm pipework to allow that, so I am considering fitting a short length of flexible tail.

Apart from the fact that a tail usually reduces the bore to 10mm, is there any reason why this is a bad idea? Or is there another plumbing solution that I don't' know about?

Thanks and toodle pip]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302495#Comment_302495 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302495#Comment_302495 Sun, 16 Jul 2023 11:57:01 +0100 owlman
https://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible-copper-plumbing-stick-15mm-x-1-2-x-300mm/61598?kpid=61598&&&&&gclid=1e16bee1b7d51ac0b452da527b910a9e&gclsrc=3p.ds&ds_r

P.S.
Have you looked at this profi. range of hose fittings

https://www.easy-irrigation.co.uk/geka-hose-fittings-c-237_134_24?zenid=n41nsrp5a4q4pbvmj64i811r04]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302496#Comment_302496 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302496#Comment_302496 Sun, 16 Jul 2023 12:37:19 +0100 WillInAberdeen Posted By: RexI will be fitting a check valve inside and a compression slip joiner.
http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17036&Focus=290370#Comment_290370

Rex, is this the same plumbing project you did two years ago using buried hosepipes?

One option is to redo the plumbing using pukka underground MDPE pipe and fittings which are ok for higher pressure.

Another option is to connect a pressure reducer using the same compression slip joiner which you used for the anti-contamination check valves, though obvs this will much reduce the flow through your hosepipes.

Another option is to ask the water co to reduce the mains pressure, 6 bar is pretty high, 1-2 is normal.


I wouldn't want to use those flexible braided tap connectors at 6 bar. We had an incident where the water co accidentally increased the water supply to our village from the normal 1 bar up to about 6 bar, and lots of people had leaks from those connectors, and from washing machine hoses etc.]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302497#Comment_302497 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302497#Comment_302497 Sun, 16 Jul 2023 13:23:27 +0100 djh
PS Thanks for the Screwfix link owlman. They look useful :bigsmile:]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302498#Comment_302498 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302498#Comment_302498 Sun, 16 Jul 2023 13:50:57 +0100 Rex
Not a big problem in itself and I have now repaired with compression fittings and a jubilee clip to hopefully stop it happening again. But to reduce the chance, it would be useful to reduce the delivery pressure; hence the valve.

But the 2m run of 15mm copper from the internal stopcock to the elbow where it goes through the wall is soldered. It does have a compression at either end of the isolation valve but I would guess, insufficient movement to fit a pressure reduction valve with compression.

Thanks for the above links. Should have fitted Geka from the get-go. Since I have not had any problems with the regular 15mm compression tails to every tap, am considering this:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible-tap-connector-15mm-x-1-2-x-300mm/6768g after the valve.]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302499#Comment_302499 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302499#Comment_302499 Sun, 16 Jul 2023 14:56:12 +0100 WillInAberdeen
You did get all the advice you needed in your previous thread, and not just from me - seems you didn't actually follow it...!

Posted By: WillInAberdeenUse a compression slip coupler? Allows the pipe to slide in/out to give you enough play, then tighten it up and it grips. This is one, just ignore the name.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/compression-pipe-repair-fitting-15mm/85529
Posted By: WillInAberdeenhttps://www.screwfix.com/p/double-check-valve-15mm/96336
]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302500#Comment_302500 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302500#Comment_302500 Sun, 16 Jul 2023 15:06:59 +0100 djh Posted By: RexBut the 2m run of 15mm copper from the internal stopcock to the elbow where it goes through the wall is soldered. It does have a compression at either end of the isolation valve but I would guess, insufficient movement to fit a pressure reduction valve with compression.How does whether it is soldered or not affect your ability to cut the pipe?]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302501#Comment_302501 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302501#Comment_302501 Sun, 16 Jul 2023 19:01:51 +0100 Mike1 Posted By: RexApart from the fact that a tail usually reduces the bore to 10mm, is there any reason why this is a bad idea?They're always a bad idea becase eventually (albeit after 10 or 20 years, unless incorrectly fitted) they will fail. I've seen it myself in a hotel, where there was a failure every few weeks, sometimes two on the same day... The only place I tolerate them is within a WC cistern.

See also https://www.iag.com.au/faulty-hoses-dampening-australian-households]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302502#Comment_302502 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302502#Comment_302502 Sun, 16 Jul 2023 19:49:36 +0100 revor Brass and cheaper than plastic Hoselock and being recyclable more eco. The rubber gasket between the fittings is substantial and cheaper than a Hoselock "O" ring. No complicated plumbing required either.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=geka+fittings&form=ANNNB1&refig=e19688a562bc42d995ffee8af327a59e&sp=1&lq=0&qs=AS&pq=geka&sc=10-4&cvid=e19688a562bc42d995ffee8af327a59e&sydconv=1]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302503#Comment_302503 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302503#Comment_302503 Sun, 16 Jul 2023 20:36:48 +0100 djh Posted By: WillInAberdeenAnother option is to ask the water co to reduce the mains pressure, 6 bar is pretty high, 1-2 is normal.Hmm,most sites say 1 bar is the required minimum, but Ofwat says it is 7 m (i.e. 0.68628976024 bar). We reduce it down to 3 bar from the normal 5 or so here. Plumbnation says it's normally 2.7 - 4. So I suppose what is normal depends on where you live.]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302505#Comment_302505 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302505#Comment_302505 Mon, 17 Jul 2023 07:43:12 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Leave the pressure as it is and use better fittings. either Geka type or brass hoselock fittings rather than plastic ones. O rings for hoselock are cheap if you buy generic O rings of the right size.

I have found that hose pipes left on and closed at the down stream end can burst if in direct hot sunlight - especially the darker hosepipes and the cheaper ones (obviously) suffer more. so I don't leave hosepipes under pressure any more.]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302508#Comment_302508 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302508#Comment_302508 Mon, 17 Jul 2023 09:51:34 +0100 revor Posted By: Peter_in_Hungaryso I don't leave hosepipes under pressure any more.

I Can second that.

A few years ago I left a hose on partly coiled up on its Hoselock trolley to find next day the pressure in the hose had like a python crushed the plastic centre rendering the trolley useless. I did manage to get parts to repair.]]> Flexible tail http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302509#Comment_302509 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17903&Focus=302509#Comment_302509 Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:58:17 +0100 Rex
Thanks for the replies and apologies for kinda having raised the thread previously. Perhaps my aging brain cells are working on other things!

The compression slip coupler would definitely do the job.

When posting, had not considered the pressure loss at the hosepipe end if I reduce the initial pressure. Since I have resolved the external coupling 'problem' with improved fittings (3/2" tap screw to the underground pipe with hose jubilee clipped to the fitting) think I will now leave the pressure as it is. The gardener would not like a reduced pressure at the end of the garden.

Just have to ensure that she turns the tap off.]]>