Green Building Forum - Ice Box Challenge Tue, 19 Dec 2023 04:38:24 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290725#Comment_290725 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290725#Comment_290725 Wed, 28 Jul 2021 10:57:32 +0100 revor
https://iceboxchallenge.org/

As part of lead up to COP 26 Two boxes one built to PH standard the other Scottish building regs each containing 1 cubic metre of ice. Enter the competition to guess the weight left at end of test.]]> Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290737#Comment_290737 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290737#Comment_290737 Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:11:42 +0100 Jonti Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290738#Comment_290738 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290738#Comment_290738 Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:54:09 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: JontiI find this competition's terminology slightly odd. As I understand it passive house is not about keeping heat in or out but rather building a house that will create/maintain a comfortable living temperature which takes into account the location/aspect of the building in the design. This competition seems more about how well you can insulate a house.
IMO your description of a passive house falls short of what a passive house is about. You can create/maintain a comfortable living temperature in a cardboard box - given enough technology and energy usage but that would not be to the passive house ideals.

The competition should highlight the differences between what can be achieved by design and what is required by the standards of today and this perhaps will be done in a manner that will be readily understood by the man on the Clapham omnibus.

Yes you could point out the differences by quoting kW/m2 /year between each and other relevant figures of Kg CO2/ year etc but the said man on the Clapham omnibus eyes would glaze over quite quickly.

Yes it is gimmicky but IMO might get the point over better than a power point presentation of graphs.]]> Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290739#Comment_290739 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290739#Comment_290739 Thu, 29 Jul 2021 07:49:54 +0100 Jonti
this is what I dislike about forum chats. It is easy to say 'this is wrong' and you are of course correct that the PH concept is more than my 'off the cuff' one line description but why not embellish or or correct rather than just criticise??? .

If you read the competition webpage it is difficult to ascertain what their goal is. It is easy to throw terms about such as PH or SBS but will they get a certificate to prove the it is to the standard. Will either be liveable space? As you say, PH is more than just my description of it but will the 'icebox' being built meet it.

As for if the average man on the street will understand what the results mean I do not know but can you show where they say what it is they are trying to prove and how this demonstration will do it?]]> Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290741#Comment_290741 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290741#Comment_290741 Thu, 29 Jul 2021 11:24:24 +0100 djh
I wonder what they're actually going to do about ventilation in the buildings, since I think we're all agreed that is an equally important part of the requirement? And what kind of windows have been fitted? And of course a lifecycle analysis of the project would likely show what a bad idea it was from a carbon emissions perspective.

As always I'm less than impressed by the organizational ability of these organizations. Why is it so difficult to find details of the designs?]]> Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290745#Comment_290745 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290745#Comment_290745 Thu, 29 Jul 2021 18:11:44 +0100 WillInAberdeen
So it probably has no windows or doors or ventilation or foundations or fireproofing or PV?

And it doesn't need to keep warm, and will be gone before winter, so won't need optimising for solar gains?

So probably better not to over think it. It's a publicity stunt by PHI and some related organisations to grab some attention, which is not a bad thing.

Edit: just watched the video and it's an insulated garden shed.

Building Standards are defined by comparison with a building of the same shape and of specified U value in W/m2K, but AIUI passive house is defined by annual energy consumption per unit floor area in kWh/m²a.

So a tiny building with a high ratio of external area to floor area, would have to be a whole lot more insulated to meet PH standard, than to meet SBS. It would need thicker insulation than a full size PH has. So the PH one will 'win' convincingly which is the idea I guess.]]> Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290746#Comment_290746 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290746#Comment_290746 Thu, 29 Jul 2021 18:11:46 +0100 Jonti
I agree completely with the second two paragraphs of your post which was in effect what my first post was about. IMO the lack of a design description suggests it will be a gimmick.

As to PiH comment. I have absolutely no problem with his comment about my description of PH which I freely accepted in my second post. I would however have expected him to have added in what he felt would have improved the description as I also put in my second post. It takes no knowledge of a subject to criticise or disagree but it does take a knowledge to add, embellish or correct which is what forums such as this are hopefully about.

What I am struggling a bit with is why you think the second post would alter in any way the meaning/interpretation of the first post. If you could explain it would be great as it would help me to avoid such problems in the future.]]> Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290747#Comment_290747 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290747#Comment_290747 Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:46:23 +0100 djh Posted By: JontiWhat I am struggling a bit with is why you think the second post would alter in any way the meaning/interpretation of the first post.
Your second post explains a lot better what you were thinking about. Your first post didn't really do that. So PiH was entitled to respond to what was written in the first post and most of his post was explaining what he thinks the purpose of the contest is (or might be) rather than criticising you. So I think you're being oversensitive to his post and unduly critical of it in your own reply.]]> Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290748#Comment_290748 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290748#Comment_290748 Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:50:16 +0100 djh Posted By: WillInAberdeenSo a tiny building with a high ratio of external area to floor area, would have to be a whole lot more insulated to meet PH standard, than to meet SBS. It would need thicker insulation than a full size PH has. So the PH one will 'win' convincingly which is the idea I guess.
Very true and the perhaps Machiavellian nature of the competition design had escaped me. Thanks. I'm even less impressed by the organizers if so.]]> Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290750#Comment_290750 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290750#Comment_290750 Thu, 29 Jul 2021 22:56:53 +0100 Jonti Posted By: djh
Posted By: JontiWhat I am struggling a bit with is why you think the second post would alter in any way the meaning/interpretation of the first post.

Your second post explains a lot better what you were thinking about. Your first post didn't really do that. So PiH was entitled to respond to what was written in the first post and most of his post was explaining what he thinks the purpose of the contest is (or might be) rather than criticising you. So I think you're being oversensitive to his post and unduly critical of it in your own reply.

The first post did not say in less detail what the second post did because after the first paragraph the second post was on another topic namely my take on what the competition was trying to show. That you appear to think the two posts were linked in theme explains your (IMO) strange conclusions. Maybe you're just overthinking this one
:wink:]]> Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290751#Comment_290751 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290751#Comment_290751 Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:35:22 +0100 djh Ice Box Challenge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290757#Comment_290757 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17135&Focus=290757#Comment_290757 Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:16:18 +0100 Jonti ]]>