Tue, 19 Dec 2023 06:26:50 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297038#Comment_297038 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297038#Comment_297038 Thu, 28 Jul 2022 12:21:33 +0100 tony
Bleed your radiators. Trapped air can make your radiators less efficient, so they'll be slower to heat up. If you feel confident doing it yourself,….

I disagree! The use of the term efficient winds me up again

I think that they might mean, ‘Trapped air can make your radiators deliver less energy’ which it could be a good thing as bills will be lower.

Bleeding the ‘air’ out will help them deliver more heat to the home and use more energy and cost more.

Again the opposite of what they were saying it would do (use less energy)]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297042#Comment_297042 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297042#Comment_297042 Thu, 28 Jul 2022 15:08:19 +0100 philedge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297044#Comment_297044 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297044#Comment_297044 Thu, 28 Jul 2022 15:34:48 +0100 WillInAberdeen
And the heating would have to come on an extra half hour earlier, to warm the house up before everyone gets home.

But agree with Tony that this is not very impactful advice.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297045#Comment_297045 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297045#Comment_297045 Thu, 28 Jul 2022 18:01:41 +0100 djh
In terms of efficiency, if you define it as the fraction of rated output that the radiator is providing then it all makes sense so I can't take much issue with the use of the word. And as Phil and Will say, air in the system can easily cause the system to use more energy to achieve the same result, so it's also justified usage in that sense.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297050#Comment_297050 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297050#Comment_297050 Fri, 29 Jul 2022 08:16:29 +0100 tony
Heating coming on half an hour earlier does not count, needing to yes.

The whole thing is very complex with lots of variables

Nice chat though.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297051#Comment_297051 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297051#Comment_297051 Fri, 29 Jul 2022 09:19:30 +0100 philedge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297056#Comment_297056 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297056#Comment_297056 Sat, 30 Jul 2022 10:23:13 +0100 jms452
At that level the efficiency decrease would be really quite considerable.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297064#Comment_297064 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297064#Comment_297064 Sat, 30 Jul 2022 21:26:03 +0100 tony
Yes the radiators won’t be so good at delivering heat to the rooms.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297065#Comment_297065 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297065#Comment_297065 Sat, 30 Jul 2022 21:32:37 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: tonyI would have thought that the boiler control system would reduce the boiler output power to try to get the return temperature down.

Yes the radiators won’t be so good at delivering heat to the rooms.
Which means that some users will try to over come the problem by either winding up the thermostat or the temp. control on the boiler or both to mask the problem with the rads - which by doing so will lower the efficiency of the boiler = lost energy = more expense.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297072#Comment_297072 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297072#Comment_297072 Sun, 31 Jul 2022 10:47:14 +0100 SimonD Posted By: tonyI would have thought that the boiler control system would reduce the boiler output power to try to get the return temperature down.


Unfortunately most boilers don't work like that even when they can modulate their output. Most systems are installed and set up with simple on/off thermostats so the boiler either runs according to the output temp set on the boiler or just off. You need something like Opentherm or other proprietary controls to get the boiler modulating properly. It would be great if the boiler could intelligently modulate flow temperature and flow rate to achieve the most desireable return temps, but it seems they still rely on the installer to set this up.

BEAMA recently published a report on potentially achieving 10-12% energy savings by installing these better controls. The research was conducted by University of Salford (obviously caveating this with the fact that Beama is the trade association for manufacturers of these kinds of products, but the reasoning and data seem fair - https://www.beama.org.uk/static/7f5ebe31-04e1-470e-9befd249359959d9/15d07ed2-35d0-4c9f-90f958f81e9425f6/Salford-tests-on-load-and-weather-compensation.pdf)]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297076#Comment_297076 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17527&Focus=297076#Comment_297076 Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:34:57 +0100 WillInAberdeen
In the course of five heating systems in three houses we lived in recently, the radiators were mostly oversized, some wildly so. Either because the installer had been generous with radiator sizing as they are pretty cheap and he didn't want callbacks, or because newer radiators were fitted to the same dimensions as older less effective ones. They have all worked fine with lower flow temperatures than default. However if someone found their house wasn't warm enough all year with flow temperature at 60⁰C, they could tweak it up during cold snaps and back down in the early spring.

I wondered if anyone makes retrofit hi-efficiency controllers for older "dumb" boilers (IE those without variable flow temperatures) to upgrade them with load or weather compensation. I was thinking about some electronics that would hook into the wiring of the existing flow temperature probe on the boiler and provide a different apparent resistance, which would fool the boiler into adjusting its flow temperature for greater efficiency, . Bit like "re chipping" a car.]]>