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Housing - New Build: air tightness... what tape to seal over staples? American duct tape ok?

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    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    For going over the staples I'd get the wife to follow you round with a tube of "sticks like shit" and more membrane if you think a rubbery, dried patch of stickslike won't cut it.. While I'm all for orcon (and have 200 tubes of it sitting in the garage ready for sorting the air tightness on a couple of houses I'm doing) I wouldn't buy it in small quantities. The Tescon tape looks to be the nuts too, though I haven't actually used it yet..


    The problem with using duct tape is that it doesnt work like you think; it's intended for going around ducts in laps and the pulling tight of it means that the overlayer compresses the underlayer and helps it hold on. Every bit of duct tape I've stuck on a membrane in the house so far (to hold them tempoirarily while structure is fitted around it) has since peeled off, and they were very well pressed on. Mechanical overfix required..

    .. and while you say you have mostly got mechanical overfix, what's the point in patching up 1000 staple holes if one significant duct taped seam is going to let go and fall off?
    • CommentAuthorHairlocks
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2015
     
    I wanted to hold the air tight membrane to the roof before some extra PUR and plasterboard was added. I also put an extraction fan in a temp front door to find air leaks.

    Rather than battening to put Putting nails and staples through air tight membrane should stay airtight as long a staple/nail remains in place. So I strengthened the membrane with gaffer tape before stapling through it, for my DIY pressure test.

    Edges need to be sealed, with the proper tape, staples and nails should seal themselves but any bellowing could change that over time. I ended up friction fitting a lot of 25mm PUR in the serivce cavity before plaster boarding to keep the air tightness membrane still.
    • CommentAuthorsplashie
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    Hello - you will all be pleased to hear that I binned the duck tape plan and we are going over all tape with other, more appropriate, and vastly more expensive tape. Our joiner thinks we are totally overdoing it and keeps shaking his head at us - I do hope to prove him wrong with our super air tight home in the future !

    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: cjard</cite>For going over the staples I'd get the wife to follow you round ?</blockquote>

    Had to quote this....I'm the wife BTW doing the going over staples bit ....and doing ALL the research :)
    In saying that I've done very little at this stage and my OH is doing an excellent tape-tastic job. It has slowed the schedule down tho as I thought we'd be done and on to first fit electrics by now, but best to get it right.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    Posted By: splashieIt has slowed the schedule down tho as I thought we'd be done and on ...

    Yes, I was staggered how long it took to put sticky tape everywhere. My carpenters say the house is held together by sticky tape!
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    I was wondering, rather than use staples, how about using rubber based glue, the stuff in an aerosol can, to stick the membrane? No staple holes!
    • CommentAuthorCerisy
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2015
     
    It's more of a practical issue Triassic. We covered the outside of our house with an extra layer of fabric and the interior with the air-tight membrane and in both cases being able to bang in staples as you hold the large sheets of fabric was essential - thinking that you can hold the fabric in place while the glue goes off ... not going to happen! Using a hammer action stapler that pushes the staples in + check each one and hammer in any that are slightly proud, should mean that the air-leakage is minimal.
  7.  
    Cerisy, know where you are coming from however the glue Triassic was referring to is instant tack/contact adhesive it most certainly would work but it would be horribly expensive - v hard to estimate the relative costs though, esp if you take into account the time saving
    • CommentAuthorCerisy
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2015
     
    Still not getting this Gotanewlife - you're trying to hold up a large sheet of fabric, stretching it to get it flat on the wall or ceiling and applying the instant tack glue. Unless there are three people - two holding the fabric and one applying the glue - you don't have a prayer of getting it flat and then trying to get the joints true and sealed. With staples you get a fix at the first corner and can then work your way around the sheet, although the ceiling were more troublesome!!
  9.  
    I hadn't thought about the ceilings - gulp - nightmare

    The glue sprays on the walls/substrate, you then have several minutes. Same procedure as you followed - line up first edge press and away you go - if the bond isn't strong enough on the first leading edge you could always use a couple of staples but thereafter a bit like putting a film on glass. All depends on the glue though, those hobby cans are great....for hobbies, there's probably something that paints on from a 5ltr can. I can imagine it really working well but that's just my imagination.

    Ceilings though.....hmmmm.

    Academic though as you have already done it.
    • CommentAuthorCerisy
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2015
     
    Yes it could work, but tricky as we struggled to get it taut and having a time constraint could be a bit annoying!!

    It was good feeling when we got the ceilings finished, although now I'm having to sand the joints on the ceilings I'm back to hating ceilings!!
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015 edited
     
    Of course, I hadn't meant to depict the staple covering task as a menial effort suited to the female of the relationship.. Far from it; it requires precision and attention to detail, plus good eyesight. My OH gets those jobs because her colour vision is better than mine and nearly is her meticule. I'm stronger so I get on with the more brutish tasks and she finesses

    That said, though I'm going to the same extents as you are I become a little exasperated at the other trades lack of appreciation for it.. I do hope hat in the end I'll be proven right as it would be considerably annoying to have spent so much time and money on something and for it not to work out.. Then again, that could be as a fault of a follow on trade bashing a massive hole in it.. Had that one already by the guys who were doin tthe fit!
  12.  
    Well I actually just want some duct tape eqiv for my light weight pool cover, similar BBQ cover and a whole host of other things where duct tape just doesn't seem sticky enough or or ages too quickly. I note the recommendations for Pro Clima Vana but it only has an outside exposure time of 6 months, which will do as no doubt it will last considerably longer, but is there another choice? I will use sparingly so cost not a driver as such. Get from Germany as per earlier comments. I have looked over some of the makes but the choice is rather large and descriptions obviously not aimed at my needs! Ta
  13.  
    Just bought large batch of Pro clima tapes (well, seems large to me - about 2km!) from www.baunativ.de. Cheap delivery and delivered within a week, and their English is a hell of a lot better than my German!! Very pleased.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2015 edited
     
    Newwife, if it's little holes you're looking to patch you could take a look at a product called plastidip on eBay.. A sort of paintable rubber, but actually intended to give a rubber coating to things that can be dipped in and withdrawn slowly, like tools handles. I used it to repair tiny holes in the vacuum diaphragms of my Yamaha's carburettors, it it struck me that with a bit of mesh reinforcement(scrim tape?) it would go further., working well!
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: cjardplastidip

    Or search for "liquid electrical tape" (which will find plastidip too).
    Fanastic stuff for waterproofing connections in awkward places. :bigsmile:
  16.  
    I actually used something a bit like that as a 'primer' for my duct tape on my last attempt. No, it is tape I need - there seem to be lots of pro-clima tapes but none designed for more than 6 months UV exposure - as far as I can tell. Nick 2Km - how many houses are you doing!!!!

    PS Cjard it is 'new life' not 'new wife'! Don't apologize though has happened before.
  17.  
    ''Nick 2Km - how many houses are you doing!!!!'' Lots and lots and lots of OSB joints, all external perimeters etc, and I am a pessimist!
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2015
     
    Might a membrane not have been cheaper? Do try and put the tapes where mechanical fix can contribute to the security..

    For my AT I'm using Tyvek airguard jointed with orcon and the service void battens screwed down over the top of the bead.. Trust in sticky to always stick? Not me sir..
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2015
     
    New*ife.. Is there a difference? :bigsmile::bigsmile:
  20.  
    ''Might a membrane not have been cheaper? Do try and put the tapes where mechanical fix can contribute to the security..

    For my AT I'm using Tyvek airguard jointed with orcon and the service void battens screwed down over the top of the bead.. Trust in sticky to always stick? Not me sir..''

    Yes, using battens to trap as far as possible. Membranes have come and gone throughout the scheme, but now it's down to the OSB.
    • CommentAuthorwoodgnome
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2015 edited
     
    You dont need to staple the membrane at all. I used beads of OrconF around the edges of the roll and @about 400centres. Press home with a bit of 4inch sq 6mm ply as you go.
    Membrane stays put
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2015
     
    Why not just using foaming glue on the back of the service void battens where they cover a OSB joint?
    • CommentAuthorGotanewlife
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2015 edited
     
    New*ife.. Is there a difference?:smile::smile:

    Cheeky!

    OK it will be Proc Clima Vana unless someone has a bright idea today.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2015
     
    Posted By: GotanewlifeI actually just want some duct tape eqiv for my light weight pool cover, similar BBQ cover and a whole host of other things where duct tape just doesn't seem sticky enough or or ages too quickly. I note the recommendations for Pro Clima Vana but it only has an outside exposure time of 6 months, which will do as no doubt it will last considerably longer, but is there another choice? I will use sparingly so cost not a driver as such.


    OK it will be Proc Clima Vana unless someone has a bright idea today.

    I'll prefix my answer by saying that I don't know what the answer is, but I suspect Vana isn't it!

    Pro Clima fairly recently introduced a series of tapes for external sealing (Extoseal ....) so it's possible one of those is ideal but I haven't looked at the specs. Most airtightness tapes are designed to be covered by something else, so UV resistance is not high on their priorities.

    I'd think some rubber-based tape (EPDM or butyl?) might be better, perhaps in conjunction with some flexible external glue.

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