Never thought about these before, just a quick Google, I didn't realise how much energy they do use, 3.5kw start up and around 1200w constant use for a medium one. God knows what banks of them use commercially!

Is heating banned, - then why should cooling.
Admittedly buildings could, and are, being designed to minimise both but until we have all buildings so fitted then I don't think you can just ban it. You could argue, ( as djh mentions) if its integrated into solar production then why not, especially as it's efficiency can be very high.
Making electricity more expensive might concentrate the minds more.

Aircon in cars? Essential I'd say. I'm ld enough to remenber without - and you'd boil to death in the summers (or go deaf cos' you had to have the windows open. In the WInter - a major safety feature, as it prevents the wondows fogging up, which is a real problem when its wet & warm.

Posted By: tonyCommercial buildings use air cooling even when it is cooler outside than inside (this is generally the case)

Because their internal gains are so high. And in some cases you can't open windows. In the last place I worked there were both data centre-type rooms, which need to be sealed so they can flood it with gas fire extinguishant if necessary, and class-4 biological containment labs which need to be both sealed and ventilated even when there's a fire raging. In some places you wouldn't want windows open because of the external air quality.

I'm not saying that commercial buildings couldn't make better use of natural cooling, but there's no way you could ban mechanical cooling outright.

Cars, yes it is nice but is it necessary?

Well, right, but by the same logic we should ban cars themselves; not to mention TVs and an electrical supply grid. None of them are necessary. We managed fine before they were invented.

Posted By: djh

And if and when I do buy an ASHP for my home, I expect it will be a reversible one. I used to be opposed to the idea, but not so much now.

It's n ot so effective as you might think, though some of that might be down to the design of my house; I have a reversible one but I suspect it largely ineffective as it removes heat from the floors, which are the coolest part of the room (my UFH in the mid and top floor has insulation underneath). No one designs a fridge with the cooling plates in the base - they're always in the back or the top (and masquerade as a pseudo-freezer compartment)

I've long pondered that it would probably be better to have an ASHP inside the house as well, given that they generate colder air in exchange for warmer water, so the solution to my too-hot house would be to take the heat energy from the air/fabric and dump it into the hot water tank (which I will then use for a shower before dumping the heat down the drain) rather than paying money to dump it outside directly. In winter I'll use the ASHP outside, but in summer I'll use the indoor ASHP to provide the benefits of cooling the house while heating the water

Posted By: owlmanI assume yours is Air to Water, I have Air to Air and it's very effective at both heating and cooling.

Exactly. Air to water won't remove humidity, which is one of the best features of air-to-air (and water-to-air GSHP)

Paul in Montreal

@paul running an air to water inside the house should have a slight dehumidifying effect too, as it seems there's always some condensate

Banning is not practical and is certainly undesirable in many cases. Enforcing efficient ones would be far more practical.

Tumble driers, oil fired heating, radiators with no thermostatic controls, outdoor gas fired heaters, all get my ban well before aircon.

Gas fired hobs and ovens would be next, along with preventing the building of any new building not meeting established good practice for energy efficiency in use. Same for boats, caravans, cars, lorries, planes etc

Whilst we're at it how efficient are the shop heating things that blow a curtain of hot air at the door?

Holly Bush

Gas fired hobs is on your list of bans, what are you going to cook with instead ?
Wind has massively reduced carbon emissions from Electricity production but it is a long way from stopping them.

40 odd percent efficient gas powered generator is likely to be making your cooking hob electricity kWs instead.
On a non windy, cool day then 2 to 2.5 times more CO2 emissions (more gas) from an electric hob than burning the gas on the hob.

I see the point in limiting new ones in 2027 but until there is something to transition to as heating source there is not enough non gas powered electricity to move everyone across.

Tony - I agree it is all about reducing usage energy usage and consumption of stuff.

AirCon in UK should be a no, except for the vulnerable. On the few days per year it get uncomfortable. Closing curtain and windows to keep the hot out during the day is generally enough.

Wood burners, that by basic chemistry of the fuel, generate twice the CO2 emissions as gas powered heating would be on my list, more in cities where they affect air quality, rather than off grid areas.

Gas fires that are not enclosed and over 90% efficient should go too.

How do you move inefficient boilers and fires out of use ?

Hmm, a quick google produced the following link as the first chart to compare fuel types:

https://www.icax.co.uk/Decarbonising_Heating_2022.html

From that it appears that next year even my resistance heating induction hob will be 37% better than a gas hob!

I'm not sure whether heat pump hobs are available?

Either way it looks like electricity is the way to cook.

"Gas hob warms your house a bit more in winter ?" err, aren't you venting the stuff out doors with an extractor fan? Which is far less necessary with an induction hob.

Each year more and more electricity will be from renewable. Why allow gas hobs, heaters, boilers etc now? Why not announce the phasing out of all, similar to the heat pump v gas boiler.

But if I ever get both solar panels and aircon, I will run the aircon when the sun shines. I would even eat uncooked food to offset. But whilst there are so many other bad ways to pump CO2 into the atmosphere, I'm unlikely to agree to ban it.

HollyBush,

Gas is being phased out for new builds from 2027 is it not. Should not need heating or tiny amounts by then if housing design was properly energy efficient by then.

Your comment
"Gas hob warms your house a bit more in winter ?" err, aren't you venting the stuff out doors with an extractor fan? Which is far less necessary with an induction hob.

Not sure your comments stack up, but I think gas hobs, will go in new build as CO2 efficient heat pumps come in on the new builds and reason for connecting gas to the house goes away.

I use gas hob and would welcome advice showing it is dangerous or that I need to have an extractor fan on for me to use it. Extractor is used for the steam and smells from food rather than the heat and combustion products of cooking - so extractor is same for both. In modern world extractor should recover the heat anyway of the air being thrown away.

I have a "feeling" but no evidence that induction hob uses a little less energy to heat food than a gas hob but differences are likely small. I therefore gave advantage to electric hob in trying to work out which emits less CO2 overall. They seems effectively the same give or take.

Induction hob uses electricity which emits more CO2 by something like 1.4 times per unit of energy as burning gas.

Cooking hobs are very small energy user compared to heating and hot water, so hobs are not going to have much effect either way. If the electricity grid were bigger and green in winter then electric heat pumps would be a greater impact on reducing CO2. If the major use of gas in house is removed with the boiler replaced by a heat pump then small cooking hob becomes pointless and will go to electric you would think.

Many more knowledgeable people on here, know about building energy efficient houses which reduce needs to almost no heating being needed, so the debate on new build should be why is a heat source needed over a couple of kW.

There is not enough electricity generation in middle of winter when wind and solar, are off to power the country so a dash to electricity for heating would leave a gap in supply of electricity. There are fleets of diesel and gas powered micro generation sites on CHPS helping to bridge these sort of gaps as well as big gas fired power stations ramping up.

I take your point on when sun is shining and PV is producing electricity then surplus can be used to power AC, but good building design should limit the need for aircon. The surplus electricity is stored or the surplus electricity is used to get rid of CO2 from the air or something then you are better to design out the need for air con in houses in the UK. New build should not need aircon of done correctly.

In big populated buildings where you have lots of 100W/person heat sources inside the if it is hotter than say 24 C outside ventilation and solar shielding are not going to be enough to stop inside temperature getting to hot.

In hot countries the waste (60%) heat from gas fired electricity generators is used to power air conditioning in co generation schemes and do the hot water on hotels and the like.

It is quite striking when you visit houses in Malaysia where they have open windows and grills and fans. With Gekos on the ceiling to eat and stray insects / mesh on windows but very limited AC. You sleep well enough even in the very high heat.

As I see it biomethane contains exactly the same number or carbon atoms as normal methane

Is all carbon equal or is some more equal than others?

Posted By: LFThe figures above are from heat pump association so not exactly independent.

I don't know where you got this idea from? The page they are on is published by Icax, which is a firm that is involved in designing and supplying ground source heat pump systems, and it clearly states: " Using the predicted Carbon Grid Factor for 2020 of 136 gCO2/kWh published by BEIS on 11 April 2019". BEIS is of course the government's Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy. So I'm not sure where you got the idea of a heat pump association from? My point was simply that what you said, without supporting evidence, might well be wrong.

<blockquote><cite>Posted By: LF</cite> Food waste and pooh are good sources of gas which overall release much less CO2 than fossil based gas. They are true waste.

Agreed, and I have no qualms about us using this waste stuff, especially as a lot of it is used local to source to drive other processes etc.


"Stuff that uses maize and sugar beet is nearer to only 60% better than fossil fuel.

This stuff may have nice headline "better than" figures but when you start factoring in all the peripheral consequences; land usage, pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers, mono-culture habitat loss, rural traffic, haulage in general, pollution, subsidies, etc etc those "better than" figures look decidedly ropey, in fact they are a myth.