Green Building Forum - Environmental benifits due to green roof technology Tue, 19 Dec 2023 05:55:01 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=35676#Comment_35676 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=35676#Comment_35676 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 11:13:07 +0100 burgers Please discuss.....]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=35704#Comment_35704 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=35704#Comment_35704 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:42:12 +0100 Nick Parsons Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=35752#Comment_35752 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=35752#Comment_35752 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:22:11 +0100 skywalker
http://www.livingroofs.org/livingpages/benwaterunoff.html

With some sources cited.

As Nick says, repeated on the living roofs site, what you get out depends on what you put in. Having tracked the debate on green roofs I would say that in an urban environment there would be a tangible environmental improvement even if there were just a few dotted around. Could be as simple, at low densities, as "look at that nice green roof" - so called intellectual green space access.

S.]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133594#Comment_133594 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133594#Comment_133594 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 18:37:42 +0000 Shevek Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133601#Comment_133601 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133601#Comment_133601 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 19:10:23 +0000 tony
Planting trees would be a better idea]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133603#Comment_133603 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133603#Comment_133603 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 19:40:40 +0000 jamesingram they do look nice though :bigsmile:]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133619#Comment_133619 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133619#Comment_133619 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 21:26:51 +0000 SteamyTea I do think they can look good though.
One problem could be watering if the doomsayers of climate change are to be believed, the areas of highest populations are the ones with most water stress in the UK.

If you want to reduce energy consumption then get a shiny roof and as Tony says, plant a tree or ten.
If anyone can think up a decent experiment to test a green roof, I am willing to get involved as I do think it is interesting, had a little go last year, but it was very small scale.]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133620#Comment_133620 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133620#Comment_133620 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 21:37:41 +0000 Gavin_A Posted By: tonyPlanting trees would be a better idea
on a roof?:wink:]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133631#Comment_133631 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133631#Comment_133631 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 06:14:47 +0000 SteamyTea

But Gavin joining the debate has made me think about which is best environmentally, some turf on your roof or some ST/PV.
It gets into the tricky area of what is 'environment', and how do we value it.]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133660#Comment_133660 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133660#Comment_133660 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 10:45:34 +0000 fostertom Posted By: SteamyTeaOne problem could be watering
Posted By: SteamyTeawhich is best environmentally, some turf on your roof or some ST/PV
In UK, turf won't survive without copious watering, and looks awful if browning. Lots of other things, sedums, alpines, thrive with rare if any watering. The ugliest thing on green roofs, which makes them look neglected/dying, is the common shingle band round the edge, which just looks like die-back. It's important visually that healthy bushiness comes right to the edge and can be seen from below.

With those sort of tough plants, cd prob have lots of PVs too, @ 45o-ish on frames above the surface.]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133662#Comment_133662 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133662#Comment_133662 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 10:55:09 +0000 SteamyTea Was being just a little facetious calling it turf, but on one of my serious notes, flat roofs could make a comeback. I know they have a chequered history in the UK (mainly because of our inability to know the difference between value and price and the building industry being slap-dash), but it is a dreadful waste of space having a traditional roof, especially with small gardens. Be a great place to camp out in the right weather too.]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133666#Comment_133666 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133666#Comment_133666 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 11:16:59 +0000 Joiner
Errr. Aren't you overlooking the increasing obesity problem in the UK? :shocked:]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133668#Comment_133668 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133668#Comment_133668 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 11:48:23 +0000 Shevek
Seems to me that anything we can do to reverse this trend and harmonise human activity with natural systems should be done as soon as possible. Turning our cities from sterile deserts into wildlife friendly places is one step and greening them with the extensive use of green roofs is one method.

One of my favourite architects, Friedensreich Hundertwasser, went even further with the idea of "tree tenants", where a window is given over to a tree:

Tree tenants can be seen from far away and benefit many people, also those who walk around the house and dwell nearby. The tree tenant symbolizes a turn in human history because he regains his rank as an important partner of man. The relationship man - vegetation must have again religious dimensions. Only if you love the tree like yourself you will survive. We suffocate in our cities through poison and lack of oxygen. We destroy systematically the vegetation which gives us life and lets us breathe. We walk alongside grey and sterile facades of houses. It is our duty to reinstall the rights of nature with all means. Cars have chased the trees up into the storeys of houses. We suffer daily from the aggressivity and the tyranny of our vertical sterile high walls. But streets in the cities will become green valleys where man can breathe freely again. Tree tenants dwell inside the walls of the house in an area of about one square meter behind the windows. The windows are set back and you can look at the tree tenant and outside. The tree tenant has one cubic meter of soil at his disposal and can become quite big. The tree tenant pays his rent in much more valuable currency than the humans.

1. Tree tenants create oxygen.
2. Tree tenants improve the city climate and the well being of dwellers.
They bring the needed moisture into the desert climate of the city, reduce the dry-humid and the cold-warm contrast.
3. Tree tenants act like vacuum cleaners. More so. They swallow even the finest and poisonous dust. There is less dust in the apartment and in the street.
4. Tree tenants swallow noise. They reduce the echoes of the city noise and create quietness.
5. Tree tenants protect you from outside view like curtains and create shelter.
6. Tree tenants give shadow in summer but let sunlight through in winter when leaves have fallen.
7. Butterflies and birds come back.
8. Beauty and joy of life come back. Living quality is improved with this piece of own nature.
9. The tree tenant is a symbol of reparation towards nature which is extremely visible. We restore to nature a tiny piece of the huge territories which man has taken away from nature illegally.

The tree tenant is a giver. It is a piece of nature, a piece of homeland, a piece of spontaneous vegetation in the anonymous and sterile city desert, a piece of nature which can develop without the rationalist control of man and his technology.

—Friedensreich Hundertwasser]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133673#Comment_133673 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133673#Comment_133673 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 12:00:05 +0000 jamesingram
Dreadful damp problem I'd imagine ?]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133676#Comment_133676 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133676#Comment_133676 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 12:07:49 +0000 fostertom
I'd add to H's theme: no reason why humans' doings can't leave the planet actually better off, than if nothing had been done. So much focus, even on GBF, is on the assumption that any kind of human doing is inherently damaging, and that the best we can do is slow the rate of damage by a few %age points by 2050 or whenever.

Not so - by aligning with nature consciously, assisting nature in the giant clean-up task that we've created, rather than just adding more mess (albeit at a slower rate - perhaps), then it's not merely a matter of 'duty' (Hundertwasser) but a matter of self-interest, survival of human (and maybe all) life on earth.

The levels of Permaculture (and its ally Transition) that go beyond mere 'better gardening', are about this, looking to the day when humans can create mighty infrastructure projects, if they wish, on the scale of airports and Crossrails (or future equivalent) confident in the knowledge and understanding that these can help nature to speed up the recovery (so the more ambitious the project the better) to 10s and 100s of yrs, instead of the 100s and 1000s and 10000s that nature would take, unaided. We humans can't wait for the latter.

In the past we've presumed to 'master' nature, which was a bit silly seeing we ARE nature. Maybe in future we don't have to become all humble, but can change the script to one where clever humans actively help nature to be herself and do her thing even better than she can 'naturally'. Why not? - because we ARE nature!]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133685#Comment_133685 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133685#Comment_133685 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 12:27:03 +0000 seascape Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133689#Comment_133689 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133689#Comment_133689 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 12:46:43 +0000 Gavin_A Posted By: SteamyTeaElder grows anywherehttp:///forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/bigsmile.gif" alt=":bigsmile:" title=":bigsmile:" >

But Gavin joining the debate has made me think about which is best environmentally, some turf on your roof or some ST/PV.
It gets into the tricky area of what is 'environment', and how do we value it.
a bit of both could be possible.

we're looking at a job at the moment where they already have green roofs on the other roofs, and the roof we're looking at is the same structure, so we've given them an option for using a version of a flat roof mounting system with no roof penetration, and using a form of moss covered green roof covering as balast.

This place has no connection to the mains drains, and is using an odd box section soakaway all round the base to soak away all rain (which I'm a bit sceptical about) so having a green roof to soak up rain and reduce the rate of run off makes a lot of sense.

This wouldn't be possible on most roofs though, as probably 95% of roofs in this country are too steep and / or too weak to be used as green roofs, whereas most are suitable for PV / thermal.]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133697#Comment_133697 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133697#Comment_133697 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:13:35 +0000 Joiner ]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133723#Comment_133723 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133723#Comment_133723 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 14:42:14 +0000 Gavin_A Posted By: JoinerAny UK planners looking in will be foaming at the mouth now!http:///forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title=":wink:" >
in what way?]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133726#Comment_133726 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133726#Comment_133726 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 14:50:26 +0000 Shevek Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133728#Comment_133728 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133728#Comment_133728 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 14:54:39 +0000 Gavin_A Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133740#Comment_133740 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133740#Comment_133740 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 15:28:41 +0000 SteamyTea Having moved from a very wooded area to one with virtually no trees, I really miss them.]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133741#Comment_133741 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133741#Comment_133741 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 15:36:48 +0000 Shevek Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133774#Comment_133774 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133774#Comment_133774 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:16:31 +0000 Janitor

Beyond that, whilst the following statement
Posted By: Shevek
vegetation must have again religious dimensions. Only if you love the tree like yourself you will survive

might well be part of the underpinning, it will not turn many on and perhaps more likely have a detrimental effect if sold in that way. People need to be encouraged, not cursed with the threat of damnation :bigsmile:]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133786#Comment_133786 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133786#Comment_133786 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 20:40:45 +0000 Shevek Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133791#Comment_133791 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133791#Comment_133791 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 21:06:23 +0000 SteamyTea Posted By: ShevekThey are after all the lungs of our biosphere
After the oceans and all the other vegetation. It also depends where the forests are I am lead to believe, they are not all equal. Then there is the albedo effect, and other land use changes to consider. Life on Earth is never simple.
But I still miss trees and like them around.]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133795#Comment_133795 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133795#Comment_133795 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 21:14:30 +0000 Shevek ]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133872#Comment_133872 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133872#Comment_133872 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 11:05:12 +0000 seascape Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133878#Comment_133878 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133878#Comment_133878 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 11:19:17 +0000 SteamyTea Posted By: seascapebut won't the leaves drop off at certain times of the year?Good point, especially if your local authority is in Norfolk, the ones that cut the conker trees down.]]> Environmental benifits due to green roof technology http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133912#Comment_133912 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2758&Focus=133912#Comment_133912 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 12:56:29 +0000 Shevek Posted By: seascapeTake those trees in the pictures, not sure where they are, but won't the leaves drop off at certain times of the year?
Perfect to let the sun in.]]>