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General: central heating, whats best?

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    Hi all, i'm new here :)
    I am looking to buy a house which is off the mains gas network and currently has no heating! all it has is a coal fire with back boiler for hot water.
    Its a semi detached 3 bed house not sure about insulation etc but i will also have to get double glazing installed!
    just dont know what sort of heating would be best and most ecconomical so all ideas will be greatly appreciated!
    Thanks Katie
  2.  
    I'd look into a multi-fuel stove with a back boiler which will heat up a tank located upstairs. You could also link a solar hot water panel to the tank to provide hot water in the summer when you would not be lighting the stove of an evening. Radiators or underfloor heating pipes would be fed with hot water pumped from the tank.

    Advantages:-

    1 good fuel security, either wood or coal - don't touch LPG or oil as they will go up in price most as we pass Peak Oil and there may be supply disruptions.
    2 you still have a heat source in the living room and hot water if the electricity grid fails.
    3 cheap to install (solar could be added later when funds allow) allowing more money to be spent on insulation which is the priority.
    4 you have a real fire to sit around in the living room.
    5 simple i.e. not much to go wrong as little technology involved.
    6 you have to do some work to burn your fuel which means you will appreciate how much you are using more than once a quarter when the bill arrives, hence you will probably be more frugal.

    Disadvantages:-

    1 you might find having to light a fire each night in the winter inconvenient (personally I like burning stuff...)
    2 you might not be able to get a stove big enough to heat the house but you can solve this problem by beefing up the insulation and draft-proofing to bring your heat requirements down to the capacity of your stove.

    This is not something I have any personal experience of but it is what I would try to do were I to move to a house with no heating system. I'm sure I've seen a guy posting on this forum who installs this kind of system so perhaps he will spot your topic.
    • CommentAuthorfuncrusher
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2007
     
    If only there was a simple answer. First, you must ask yourself 3 questions: (1) what social use will this house have eg what age of people, are they at home 24/7 or out at work 5 days, on shifts,....etc (2) are you capital-rich or capital-poor: because the most efficient systems have higher capital costs - if you have no capital, stick with the existing! (3) Do you expect to move again - if so resale value is important, plus the fact that you won't get the benefit of a big outlay if you move soon.
  4.  
    well we all work 9-5 really and are about at weekends. Try not to use the heating too much just put on more clothes lol

    We are fairly young :)

    I have contacted a few plumbers etc on said about £7k for oil central heating, also asked someone about solar water and they said about £3k for hot water and emersion heater (80% hot water in summer) and then maybe just have a stove/ open fire in the winter for heat. Its hot water that will be essential firstly for showers etc! :)

    Is it fairly easy to have raditators fitted to a back boiler? also what is the possiblity of combining too back to back fireplaces and haveing one fire to heat both rooms?

    Thanks for help and look forward to more! :D

    Katie
  5.  
    Katie,

    Your initial post said, among other things: " not sure about insulation etc but i will also have to get double glazing installed!"

    Plse do not do double glazing until (a) you are sure about the insulation and (b) you have improved the insulation to within an inch of its life! Unless the window frames are so rotten as to be non-existent, do temporary repairs and spend your money on things that will really make a carbon and monetary difference.

    I am not denying the negative effects of draughts - sort those - but the £2000+++ you may spend on D/G will be much better spent elsewhere.

    "Is it fairly easy to have raditators fitted to a back boiler?". How long's a piece of string? Yes, if the BB is big enough.

    Good luck. Do go solar if you can. £3k is OK.
  6.  
    When i said not sure, i meant i dont know what insulation is in the house in the way of cavity wall insulation or loft insulation, but be sure i will be doing those first!
    the windows are in excellent condition so i am not mind in replacing them until needs be!

    So if i can would it be best to ift radiators to a back boiler? i know i want to be green etc but i also need to consider what i can afford and as with most people my budget is limited! All i know right now is the boiler heats the hot water and there is a water tank in a upstairs cupboard :)

    If and when i get the house first jobs would be gettin the loft insulated and the walls if they are cavity walls. The i juist need a source of hot water and the rest can be saved up for!

    Are the modern wood burning stoves a good idea? and can you get ones with back boilers on? what would be the best hot water back up for when the stove is not on and do the water tanks that have the hot water in from the back boiler keep the water fairly warm? as i dont fancy the idea of getting up early to light the fire for hot water and then go off to work with the fire alight! :)

    very grateful for all the advice this website it excellent!
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMay 30th 2007
     
    I have just had 8 rads plus a back boiler stove fitted for about 4.5K

    But I had the connection to the HW tank already as I was replacing a BB (that only did HW)
  8.  
    great just what i need thanks! where did u get ur stove? was it a big job?
    I already have back boiler and hot water connection so just need a stove and rads!
    what are you going to do for hot water in summer months?

    look forward to reply

    Katie
    • CommentAuthormoogaloo
    • CommentTimeMay 30th 2007
     
    It might be worth considering a thermal store, this means when you use your stove or when the solar collects heat during the day , the heat is saved for when you need it, like in the mornings when you probably don't want to light the fire wait for the hot water tank to come to temperature before you use it.

    If you are really strapped for cash and you have some land you might think about an LPG condensing boiler and spend your cash on insulation.

    If you tell us know your budget, we can make a more realistic recomendation which takes into account energy saving and lifestyle.
  10.  
    I dont know what budget would be but no more than 10K i have been told lpg is very expensive! energy store sounds good but isnt that the same as a hot water tank? i thought they are kept cold for the water?
    there is a big garden are under ground heat pumps ecconomical.
    thanks for all advice
    • CommentAuthorchuckey
    • CommentTimeMay 30th 2007
     
    I had researchd the markey for multi-fuel stoves, and came to the conclusion that the back boiler only accounts for 20% of the heat output and that in general they are all oversized in heat and under sized physicaly . What I had was a 45" wide opening by about 40" high, to put in a stove that seemed to fit the hole, I needed a 5kW, the 3 Kw stoves have very small grates and the wood needs to be cut up in 9" lengths. So I got this 5kW model, even in the depths of a Yorkshire winter, the fire was throttled right back to make the 4m X 4m X 2.4m room less then a furnace in temperature. The back boiler offered was 1.3Kw which simply would not make a significant contribution to the heating to the rest of the house, especially with the complexity of the plumbing involved.
    Frank
  12.  
    sorry Frank, do u mean it was good or not good? all this technical stuff confuses me lol
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMay 30th 2007
     
    My stove is an Aarowe (I think that's how it's spelt)

    You will need it's integrel back boiler (you can't just use the one you have - at least I don't think so)

    Getting rads in was a bit distruptive - but I sacrificed ease for looks (ie you can see my pipes - mind you that helps with the heating)

    I do have a big lounge & I keep all the doors open to help the heat pass around the house - I may add fans (not sure yet - fairly mild winter)

    It IS hard keeping it lit/empting the ash/stacking the wood etc - but we are home 24/7 - we work from home too

    Summer HW is an emmersion - it will be solar (one day)

    If I had room I would have had a Clearview stove -they are great
    • CommentAuthorfuncrusher
    • CommentTimeMay 30th 2007
     
    You need to decide whether you intend to own the house for a short period or more than 10 years. That determines potential pay-back.

    The problem with back boilers is that they are not very efficient. For any type of heating, to get efficient combustion you need consistent fuel and automatic controls. This tends to rule out everything except gas, oil, LPG. or electric.

    With 9-5 occupancy you need a quick response system, which you won't get with solid fuel/wood, which tend to be dirty and labour intensive ( I know, having burned more wood and coal in various appliances than anyone on this website I should guess)
    For low capital investment, I would try to pick up a second hand oil boiler and rads, fit good controls, and maximise insulation. use off-peak electricity for cheap water heating in the summer if you use a lot of it.

    It's worth remembering that if fuel bills are only large if insulation is poor - looking for cheap fuel is the wrong priority.

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