Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:19:27 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284255#Comment_284255 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284255#Comment_284255 Sun, 01 Nov 2020 15:46:04 +0000 revor http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284256#Comment_284256 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284256#Comment_284256 Sun, 01 Nov 2020 16:20:55 +0000 djh http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284257#Comment_284257 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284257#Comment_284257 Sun, 01 Nov 2020 16:33:27 +0000 jamesingram http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284258#Comment_284258 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284258#Comment_284258 Sun, 01 Nov 2020 16:36:50 +0000 fostertom http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284263#Comment_284263 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284263#Comment_284263 Sun, 01 Nov 2020 17:31:50 +0000 Ed Davies
This article corresponds with what I thought I'd heard elsewhere, that the cells in the Powerwall are a different chemistry from the Tesla vehicle batteries and so definitely not post-vehicle ones. Apart from anything else, I doubt there are that many Tesla vehicle batteries that have reached end of road life yet.

https://electrek.co/2017/05/04/tesla-battery-researcher-chemistry-lifcycle/

“Interestingly, Tesla currently uses nickel cobalt aluminum (NCA) battery cells for its vehicles. For its stationary energy storage products, like the Powerwall and Powerpack, the company uses nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC) cells, which typically have a longer cycle life, but less energy density.”]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284264#Comment_284264 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284264#Comment_284264 Sun, 01 Nov 2020 17:32:26 +0000 Ed Davies Posted By: jamesingramfor ref approx £5k ex will get you 3.5kW- 17.6kWh HV system, at trade“HV”?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284265#Comment_284265 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284265#Comment_284265 Sun, 01 Nov 2020 17:40:11 +0000 Ed Davies Posted By: revor…a replacement 40kw battery…Obligatory kWh ]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284268#Comment_284268 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284268#Comment_284268 Sun, 01 Nov 2020 18:39:33 +0000 jamesingram rather than LV (48v) DC-AC-DC double inversion more common with retro fit battery systems]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284274#Comment_284274 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284274#Comment_284274 Sun, 01 Nov 2020 19:47:44 +0000 djh
edit: And Tesla are just starting to use Li-ion phosphate batteries on cars produced in China, I believe.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284276#Comment_284276 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284276#Comment_284276 Sun, 01 Nov 2020 20:30:33 +0000 jamesingram LGchem HV are more expensive
Pylontech LV a bit cheaper.
not sure what mark ups other people are charging ,
theyre pretty expensive already. I work on the standard builders 15%ish for most stuff , but it all a bit variable, (quick nose around and its probably 20-25%)
since the internet was invented the list and discount pricing seems very dated. I still find it funny the old school builder merchants think theyre doing you a favor giving you 60% discount whilst still charging twice what anyone can get things delivered to their door next day for 10am for]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284288#Comment_284288 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284288#Comment_284288 Mon, 02 Nov 2020 11:46:47 +0000 dereke You can get LifePo4 cells from china (check alibaba) very cheap - around £750 for 10kWh (+shipping)
Then you need a hybrid inverter, a reputable one (you want a good one from what I can tell) is around £1,500.
I haven' figured out if there is much else needed, possibly a BMS if the inverter doesn't have one.
But less than £3k for a 10kWh is quite good value I think!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284291#Comment_284291 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284291#Comment_284291 Mon, 02 Nov 2020 13:06:18 +0000 revor http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284292#Comment_284292 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284292#Comment_284292 Mon, 02 Nov 2020 14:09:30 +0000 dereke http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284297#Comment_284297 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284297#Comment_284297 Mon, 02 Nov 2020 16:57:43 +0000 revor http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284358#Comment_284358 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284358#Comment_284358 Wed, 04 Nov 2020 15:07:58 +0000 revor https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=using+EV+battery+to+power+house&docid=608007712599048600&mid=E7AA33AA8741674D3DBAE7AA33AA8741674D3DBA&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
Bit long winded but useful look see how Tesla car batteries are installed. Guy bought battery from Tesla write off and used it in an off grid situation replacing lead acid ones. Worth just skipping through for the interesting bits if you ever wondered what is under the floor of a Tesla EV.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284361#Comment_284361 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284361#Comment_284361 Wed, 04 Nov 2020 18:06:26 +0000 djh http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284362#Comment_284362 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284362#Comment_284362 Wed, 04 Nov 2020 18:27:59 +0000 revor http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284370#Comment_284370 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284370#Comment_284370 Wed, 04 Nov 2020 22:37:41 +0000 borpin Posted By: djhAre there any plug-an-play systems that also providing islanding in the event of a power cut? i.e. act as a UPS? We've had 3 brief power cuts in the past month and lots since we moved in.Your issue will be that the power in the house should disconnect from the supply when there is a power cut so when they come to fix it, the line is not live (from your end). A UPS just supplies onward power i.e. everything goes through the UPS. Whatever you had would need to be on the supply side of your consumer unit.

This was one of the issues when there was the large power outage a while back. The strike on the sub station caused the disconnection of something like half a MW of embedded generation.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284371#Comment_284371 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284371#Comment_284371 Wed, 04 Nov 2020 23:38:23 +0000 Jecop https://www.sma-sunny.com/en/backup-options-with-sunny-boy-storage/]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284376#Comment_284376 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284376#Comment_284376 Thu, 05 Nov 2020 11:21:26 +0000 djh Posted By: revorI too have outages sometimes just a couple of seconds so there is no advantage having UPS in this situation
That's exactly the situation I want to protect against. And that's what UPS do protect against, among other things.

I suspect most of the failures we get are switching transients where the DNO automatically reroutes around some crappy piece of their overhead wire somewhere. But that's enough to reboot my PC, wipe the clocks on all the kitchen devices so they need to be reset, stop the PVR in the middle of recording and sometimes take down some of my pi and make them fail to reboot. So any interruption at all is very annoying.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284377#Comment_284377 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284377#Comment_284377 Thu, 05 Nov 2020 11:22:31 +0000 djh Posted By: borpinYour issue will be that the power in the house should disconnect from the supply when there is a power cut so when they come to fix it, the line is not live (from your end).
Yes, clearly. I don't want to be powering the entire neighbourhood!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284379#Comment_284379 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284379#Comment_284379 Thu, 05 Nov 2020 11:38:27 +0000 dereke
Something like this - https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284382#Comment_284382 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284382#Comment_284382 Thu, 05 Nov 2020 12:34:10 +0000 djh Posted By: derekefrom what I can tell you want to get a hybrid inverter, it handles grid disconnections (as far as I am aware but I haven't completely confirmed this yet, you may need an additional piece of equipment) and can supply power immediately when the grid goes down

Something like this https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva
Thanks, that looks like exactly the kind of thing. Apart from the cost I suppose the problem will be what happens if the power cut occurs whilst the kettle is on or we're cooking dinner, or in the middle of the night when the heating is on. I guess I would have to buy a bunch more smart control gear to immediately switch those off when there was a power cut.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284383#Comment_284383 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284383#Comment_284383 Thu, 05 Nov 2020 13:09:37 +0000 revor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP51JjnWvLo&list=PLzD0K2OhbVfEaxtwOfUmiDE17pf__Ialo&index=7&t=80s

One of the popular hybrid inverters Solax and its accompanying battery does not switch over automatically it can be configured so that you have a manual switch which disconnects you from the grid and over to the battery. It seems the hybrid systems are geared up to help you manage usage and store your excess solar production and store cheap night energy but needs a feed from the grid. The Delios is the only one I have found so far that will switch over automatically but that is not to say there are others. I have the same issue as DJH get a power dip have to go round resetting clocks very frustrating on ovens that have cost £1000 which are in themselves programmable. It might be worth exploring the Powervault3 as in their brochure they use the term UPS. Available next January. The only way, certainly currently to avoid dips and disruption to supply, is go off grid.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284398#Comment_284398 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=284398#Comment_284398 Thu, 05 Nov 2020 19:38:41 +0000 WillInAberdeen http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=289001#Comment_289001 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=289001#Comment_289001 Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:26:05 +0100 RobinB http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=289007#Comment_289007 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=289007#Comment_289007 Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:38:36 +0100 revor
https://www.aceongroup.com/energy-storage/battery-energy-storage/why-choose-bmz-ess/

A battery might be cheap but if not properly engineered and manged by the management system and the inverter you won't get the life out of it.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=289012#Comment_289012 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=289012#Comment_289012 Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:33:35 +0100 djh Posted By: revoran auto changeover to battery in event of grid power cut after 30 seconds
I'm not sure I understand that. You mean the power has to go down for thirty seconds and then the battery brings it back? I'm not sure I see the point of that since everything will still reboot then surely? What happens when the mains comes back?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=289015#Comment_289015 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=289015#Comment_289015 Wed, 21 Apr 2021 22:14:46 +0100 philedge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=289016#Comment_289016 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16775&Focus=289016#Comment_289016 Wed, 21 Apr 2021 22:46:47 +0100 WillInAberdeen
The grid usually comes back on within a few seconds, so no point switching to off-grid mode until you are sure that the grid is going to be down for a while.

Shhh, not a sparky....

Robin, I suspect the answer to your question is 'no'... The peak price period on a smart meter tariff is now only a few hours eg 4-7pm. Mornings and early afternoons are off-peak. Unless for some reason you must use a vast amount of power between 4-7pm, won't be worth buying a battery to store up power for that short period.

You can effectively 'store' off-peak power for free, by shifting your usage to when power is cheap, eg EV charging or immersion heaters etc.]]>