Tue, 19 Dec 2023 05:08:36 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277483#Comment_277483 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277483#Comment_277483 Fri, 20 Dec 2019 10:33:15 +0000 bhommels Bringing up the subject of smart metering once more, as the installation company is starting to pester me (on behalf of the energy supplier) to get one installed.

I asked them whether I can have access to the meter data, as this would give me detailed and calibrated monitoring of my electricity import & export and gas use. It would be so nice and morale-boosting to see the effect of the jobs I have planned.
I presumed the data would be gathered and stored somewhere, and could be made available for download in some form, as there is a lot to do about data protection nowadays.

After making a round of calls following the pointy finger from the installers to the meter network operators to the energy suppliers, they all insist the data is not stored anywhere and that the meter only supplies daily readings to the energy company for billing purposes (although they could not tell me how exactly this happens).
This strikes me as odd and I have a hard time taking this for the truth.

Does anybody on here managed to gain access to their smart meter data other than by hand? Or any other insights how smart meter data gathering works? Or am I just asking too much?

Cheerio, Bart]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277485#Comment_277485 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277485#Comment_277485 Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:09:47 +0000 djh
To access your data, you will need a Consumer Access Device (CAD). I don't believe there are any yet approved, although some are close. If and when I am approached by my supplier I will ask them to supply and install/connect one with the meter and not accept the meter until they do.

There's a long thread at https://community.openenergymonitor.org/t/a-taste-of-things-to-come-uk-smart-meter-data-access/4820 that explains a lot and links to other sources.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277486#Comment_277486 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277486#Comment_277486 Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:15:51 +0000 gyrogear
gg]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277487#Comment_277487 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277487#Comment_277487 Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:32:24 +0000 bhommels
@djh: a CAD could do the job and the smart meter specs say it supports a ZigBee / RFM based protocol, which opens up the possibility of DIYing it. It still does not address the issue of where the actual data is kept, as the CAD would just read the meter independently, providing a local copy instead of pulling data off centralized records. Note that this is in fact not inconsistent with what I have been told.

Thanks for the link to the thread on openenergymonitor.org. I stumbled across it earlier. There is a lot of talk about centralized data storage with consumers being able to access their data and control who can see what. I have not seen anything like it in real life however, except some paid for services like the n3rgy link in the thread. To me it sounds all like wishful thinking TBH.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277489#Comment_277489 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277489#Comment_277489 Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:55:18 +0000 djh Posted By: bhommelshe smart meter specs say it supports a ZigBee / RFM based protocol, which opens up the possibility of DIYing it.
No it doesn't because the device has to be approved and won't connect unless done by the supplier AIUI.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277491#Comment_277491 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277491#Comment_277491 Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:18:29 +0000 Cliff Pope
If it's just a glorified meter with no storage capacity what is it doing that is "smart", beyond what I could do with an old meter and a pencil and paper?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277492#Comment_277492 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277492#Comment_277492 Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:39:15 +0000 djh
Storage isn't real necessity; just access to the data. At the moment I get access via optical pulse counters and current-transformers as well as by paper and pencil. Seems fine by me.

If I was a major company trying to sell ovens etc though, I expect I'd be looking for an interface that let one big company talk to another big company rather than something allowing individuals to roll their own.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277495#Comment_277495 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277495#Comment_277495 Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:35:30 +0000 RobL
I think the electricity price makes an input "IF This", you might add "is less than 5p/kWh", then link it to another internet device covered by IFTTT which is the "Then That" bit that turns on/does a specific thing. So you don't need a PC always on, but you do need internet ready lights/heating/car charging/etc.

I've not got it, but I'm interested in it. Maybe somebody here has it ?

https://octopus.energy/ifttt/]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277497#Comment_277497 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277497#Comment_277497 Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:12:46 +0000 djh Posted By: RobLOctopus offer IFTTT (IF This Then That)
Yes, that's an example of companies talking to one another to line their pockets. From you, they just want trust :) Trust that the data won't leak out anywhere and that your connection to IFTTT won't be hackable. And that everybody involved will stay in business at similar prices evermore, or that you'll be happy to deal with price increases or company failures.

Sorry, I hate these cloud services ]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277508#Comment_277508 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277508#Comment_277508 Sat, 21 Dec 2019 09:51:32 +0000 revor http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277509#Comment_277509 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277509#Comment_277509 Sat, 21 Dec 2019 10:12:49 +0000 WillInAberdeen
I'm not concerned about cloud services, otherwise I would still be paying my electric bill by putting a cheque into the post box each month, and I wouldn't share quite so many details of my identity and house on GBF...!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277520#Comment_277520 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277520#Comment_277520 Sat, 21 Dec 2019 23:34:59 +0000 borpin
Second thing, thing to note is that the Energy suppler does not collect the data themselves, this is done (for SMETS1) by an SMSO (Smart Meter System Operator). No one seems to know what supplier uses what SMSO. The SMSO collects the data and then passes it on to the Supplier.

From a Data Protection point of view I find this extremely troubling. No one seemed to be able to tell me what data sharing agreements were in place - this is after all personal data.

It is unclear if the original supplier continues to have a commercial relationship with the SMSO if the customer leaves that supplier. If there is no commercial relationship, who the Data Controller of the personal data that is probably still collected is unclear.

The 'new' system consists of a Data and Communications Company (DCC). This seems to be a government backed consortium - there is only one DCC and it they should manage all the SMETS2 meters and (in theory) take on all the SMETS1 meters eventually.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/gas/retail-market/metering/transition-smart-meters/data-communications-company-ofgem-publications

The data is usually not made available to the user (Octopus are I think the exception).

It is still an absolute and very expensive mess. Typical government interference in the market and incompetent implementation by idiotic ministers.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277522#Comment_277522 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277522#Comment_277522 Sun, 22 Dec 2019 11:17:39 +0000 WillInAberdeen
Apparently there are now 5 million SMETS1 meters installed, approaching 2 million SMETS2s, and 18 million traditional meters. (Edit: that's domestic electricity meters)]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277523#Comment_277523 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277523#Comment_277523 Sun, 22 Dec 2019 11:25:02 +0000 gyrogear

77 million meters including water and gas, lots of lovely FREE consumer data to sell on...

gg]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277525#Comment_277525 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277525#Comment_277525 Sun, 22 Dec 2019 14:29:46 +0000 RobL http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277526#Comment_277526 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277526#Comment_277526 Sun, 22 Dec 2019 15:09:21 +0000 djh Posted By: RobLA friend of mine is starting the OVO Nissan Leaf V2G trial, and he needs a smets1 meter for it. Something about the smets2 only giving power consumed, not generated, so can’t do v2g yet. Strange omission.
Sounds like an interfacing problem rather than a lack of capability. i.e. inadequate standards. Remember the government is involved. Personally I'd decline the trial if it mandated a SMETS1 meter, unless that meter is fitted in addition to a SMETS2 one :)]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277538#Comment_277538 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277538#Comment_277538 Mon, 23 Dec 2019 10:12:45 +0000 CWatters http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277539#Comment_277539 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277539#Comment_277539 Mon, 23 Dec 2019 12:13:24 +0000 CWatters
One report say that the radio system used in the north has more issues and this means smeets 2 is more available in the south.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277554#Comment_277554 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277554#Comment_277554 Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:05:15 +0000 djh Posted By: CWatterssmart meters in the north differ from those in the south
Yes, I believe that's right.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277562#Comment_277562 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277562#Comment_277562 Tue, 24 Dec 2019 08:54:44 +0000 WillInAberdeen
Each supplier chooses meters from a marketplace of UK wide approved types. There's a list here:

https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277563#Comment_277563 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277563#Comment_277563 Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:38:48 +0000 djh https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/products-services/design-and-assurance/communications-hubs/

"...different Communications Hub variants will be supplied, depending on which area of Great Britain they will be installed in. In central and southern regions, cellular and wireless mesh technology (provided by Telefonica) will be used to connect to the SM WAN, while in northern regions, Communications Hubs will use long-range radio (provided by Arqiva) for wide area communications."]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277603#Comment_277603 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16368&Focus=277603#Comment_277603 Sat, 28 Dec 2019 10:14:46 +0000 gyrogear
"The mass collection of data is part of a three-year online monitoring experiment by the French government and greatly increases the state's online surveillance powers."

They forgot to mention that this also involves the obligation to have smart meters...

If you are out at work, and the meter is in the house (or garden) wall they will fit one anyhow, even though the regulations says that they also must check the main circuit breaker next to your consumer unit...

welcome to 1984

gg]]>