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Renewable Energy: Tidal lagoons

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1 to 18 of 18

  1.  
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2013
     
    Why haven't we got any yet?

    They would be able to provide energy at constant rates in linked in pairs (high and low) would be in the sea do not look ugly like wind, have a lot going for them.
  2.  
    More money in Nuclear/traditional fossil fuel generation for those that pull the strings :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2013 edited
     
    Nice concept, very expensive to build and maintain. Not that may places they can be sited, un-proven, the sea will break everything you put in it sooner or later, an irrational fear of sea level rises, and much easier and cheaper to put in off-shore wind turbines.

    There is also a lot of development money floating about on doomed project that are being developed for failure. And this is before the EIA is even considered (see my local press about Surfers Against Sewage and how they distorted the truth about the Wave Hub (that is one of the doomed failures as no one has connected to it in 3 years) and the dredging project going on on the North Coast (just about the only mine that was feasible to be opened has not been allowed to yet).

    If we were serious about tidal power we would be installing turbines on a stick that is fixed in the sea floor. Tried and Tested now. And we would have built the Seven Barrage, but we have not.:devil:
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2013 edited
     
    FOE considered these for the Severn Estuary some time ago . I prefer a barrage myself http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/briefings/severn_barrage_lagoons.pdf
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2013 edited
     
    "Surfers Against Sewage and how they distorted the truth about the Wave Hub" interested in more info there, what do they claim then ? Just packing my woolly wet suit for some north devon surfing this weekend :surfing:
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2013 edited
     
    A few years back they claimed that a wave device would flatten the surf at Hayle, I think they said that it would knock the waves down by 3m, should have been 3mm. There was a bit in the West Briton this week:
    http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Surfers-Sewage-raise-concerns-coastal-mining/story-18068762-detail/story.html#axzz2PX4Xj2wm

    http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Company-defends-controversial-tin-mining-scheme/story-18090654-detail/story.html#axzz2PX4Xj2wm

    Where in North Devon you surfing, I think the weather is going to get better, but the North Coast has not had good surf the last few weeks.
  7.  
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2013
     
    Good place. First went there in 1976, last went there in 2005, not changed any, at all. Not one bit, except the shop is not a chain rather than an independent.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2013
     
    Posted By: tonyWhy haven't we got any yet?

    They would be able to provide energy at constant rates in linked in pairs (high and low) would be in the sea do not look ugly like wind, have a lot going for them.


    I agree they are a nice idea, fully dispatachable but I think with about half the energy generation per unit area of a barrage. At present 'we' just seem interested in renewable kWh(e) generated and the profit comes more from the ROCS rather than selling the electricity. In this commercial environment why would anyone half the amount generated over a simple barrage? As subsidies drop there will be a point where selling premium electricity will be commercially attractive (purely due to the electricity pricing) but until then I think you would need a extra ROC (or two) for tidal lagoons to get them seriously on the radar...
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2013
     
    The BIG difference is that they can produce a steady flow of electricity which has some control, there is virtually no hope of a barrage in the UK due to feet dragging, lobbying by environmentalists, enquiries etc etc = zero

    Lagoons have some hope.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2013 edited
     
    The idea has been around for about 100 years, can't see it happening any time soon. Main reason it lack of sites around the UK. You need a large tidal difference and there is only one place for that.
    Tides may be predicable timewise, the height, and therefore the energy, varies. Not done the sums, but for the area they cover, and the investment, do they generate any more GWh/year than the alternatives?
    According to Wikipedia, La Ranche produces 540 GWH/year, is 700m wide, 332.5m for the generating bit, and has a rise of 8m (not sure if that is the maximum range or the mean range). The basin is 22.5 km^2. Or about 4050 million tonnes of water being moved twice a day.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2013
     
    Posted By: tonythere is virtually no hope of a barrage in the UK due to feet dragging, lobbying by environmentalists, enquiries etc etc = zero

    Lagoons have some hope.


    The best lagoon sites would also be barrage sites so all these reasons apply for lagoons too.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2013
     
    Proposed lagoon scheme on the Guardian today:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/07/swansea-bay-tidal-lagoon-funding
    http://www.tidallagoonswanseabay.com/

    Somewhere between the lagoons and barrage discussed above (i.e. just one lagoon so not fully dispatchable)
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2013
     
    Just as well as it looks like EDF is not going to raise enough money for Hinkley Point. But my money is on neither happening in the foreseeable future.

    Now using the fat in the London sewers is a good idea, and only £80m
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2013
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeait looks like EDF is not going to raise enough money for Hinkley Point
    Wot, so it may not happen?!
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2013
     
    This lagoon idea seems such a good one, is there any downsides? I know that the severn barrage had possible issues of silting and mud flats for birds being disturbed. Begs the question, are birds nesting sites more important than green energy?
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2013
     
    Posted By: joe90is there any downsides?


    You need to build lots more 'walls' than a barrage.

    If it is viable with 2 ROCs it should be comparable in cost to offshore wind and solar PV. In that case it is a useful technology as more diversity of renewable electricity generation should allow greater grid penetration (without storage).
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2013 edited
     
    There are a lot of environmental issues with it, though I tend to think that when it comes down to the last seal, dolphin, eel, welk, seaweed or plankton, or even a mermaid over our thirst for electricity, it will get built.

    Just has to be cheaper than £14b for 8.760 TWh/year for 60 years.
    We could just build some walls out at sea, add some sticks and then pop some turbines on top, may not have quite the capacity factor, but tried and tested. Actually we could not bother with the wall.

    As for EDF, I think it is 80% owned by the French Government, can they afford the long term commitment on an 'overseas' project, would a British Government survive picking up the tab and there is a lack of private equity for these infrastructure projects at the moment. So I think that all parties involved are quite happy for it not to go ahead. Yes there will be some argy bargy about compensation on the losses already accrued, but these are minor (about £1.2b at moment), pocket money to country.

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