Green Building Forum - Tanalised timber Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:32:37 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301429#Comment_301429 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301429#Comment_301429 Wed, 03 May 2023 11:55:09 +0100 Rex
Not a building question, specifically, gardening!

We have a 4x1 tanalised timber edging between the garden and the gravel drive. It lasts around 5 years before completely disintegrating. In the past, I have painted with creosote (5 years)l old engine oil and then Ducksback timber treatment (5 years.)

This time, I am considering not treating but fixing some black plastic on the back where the timber is in constant contact with the soil and then some Ducksback on the visible, above ground timber.

My kinda question is, timber rots due to the contact with the damp soi (or course, it also rots because it is a rubbish material!); but plastic will not prevent water ingress and could assist in containing dampness.

Given that I am on a budget and all other options are very expensive, is there a preferred method to prolong the life of the timber?]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301430#Comment_301430 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301430#Comment_301430 Wed, 03 May 2023 12:17:16 +0100 fostertom Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301433#Comment_301433 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301433#Comment_301433 Wed, 03 May 2023 14:07:03 +0100 Rex
Apart from anything else, I have found in the past the the timber yard tanalised c**p has so many knots that it does not like gentle bends.]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301434#Comment_301434 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301434#Comment_301434 Wed, 03 May 2023 18:24:01 +0100 revor Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301436#Comment_301436 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301436#Comment_301436 Wed, 03 May 2023 22:28:24 +0100 Jeff B Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301437#Comment_301437 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301437#Comment_301437 Thu, 04 May 2023 00:02:12 +0100 philedge Posted By: Jeff BI had the same problem as you and I used (admittedly not very "green") plain 6" concrete gravel boards for the edging.

At a guess I d say that over time concrete could be a greener solution than repeatedly chopping down trees to replace rotted timber?? If you use salvaged edging boards or small paving flags and ensure anything you use is reused then you'd likely be better using concrete??]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301438#Comment_301438 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301438#Comment_301438 Thu, 04 May 2023 09:54:35 +0100 WillInAberdeen
No idea how green or durable that is compared to alternatives but they actually looked ok.]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301440#Comment_301440 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301440#Comment_301440 Thu, 04 May 2023 11:20:37 +0100 owlman
https://www.kedel.co.uk/mixed-plastic-lumber.html]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301448#Comment_301448 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301448#Comment_301448 Thu, 04 May 2023 19:28:18 +0100 Jeff B Posted By: philedge
Posted By: Jeff BI had the same problem as you and I used (admittedly not very "green") plain 6" concrete gravel boards for the edging.


At a guess I d say that over time concrete could be a greener solution than repeatedly chopping down trees to replace rotted timber?? If you use salvaged edging boards or small paving flags and ensure anything you use is reused then you'd likely be better using concrete??

Thank you - I feel less guilty now! :wink:]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301450#Comment_301450 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301450#Comment_301450 Fri, 05 May 2023 07:43:11 +0100 chrisinbrighton Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301452#Comment_301452 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301452#Comment_301452 Fri, 05 May 2023 08:51:43 +0100 Jonti Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301483#Comment_301483 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301483#Comment_301483 Mon, 08 May 2023 22:34:22 +0100 Mike1
Posted By: chrisinbrightonive heard that scorching timber over a fire/blowtorch gives alot of protection (the Egyptions did it apparently)
And that's what I did to the timber.

That was only 3 years ago, so too soon to report the long-term effectiveness.]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301486#Comment_301486 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301486#Comment_301486 Tue, 09 May 2023 11:12:10 +0100 fostertom Posted By: Mike1I torched-on postsaversWhat are those?]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301488#Comment_301488 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301488#Comment_301488 Tue, 09 May 2023 13:56:01 +0100 owlman I use those too, so far so good, although I still have reservations regarding some Tanalith treatment

@ Tom Foster: most fence posts rot at the junction of soil and air. Postsavers are a torch on bitumin wrap around sleeve that protects that vulnerable zone. Vertical placement of the post is of course critical.]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301489#Comment_301489 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301489#Comment_301489 Tue, 09 May 2023 15:56:51 +0100 fostertom Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301494#Comment_301494 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301494#Comment_301494 Tue, 09 May 2023 21:06:07 +0100 WillInAberdeen https://www.tuffdip.com/solution.php]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301495#Comment_301495 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301495#Comment_301495 Tue, 09 May 2023 22:25:16 +0100 Jonti Posted By: WillInAberdeenFarms round here use fenceposts where the pointy end is dipped into bitumen to just above soil height, maybe something like this, or a homebrew version
https://www.tuffdip.com/solution.php" rel="nofollow" >https://www.tuffdip.com/solution.php
Very environmentally sensitive :cry: maybe I am on the wrong forum :wink:]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301496#Comment_301496 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301496#Comment_301496 Tue, 09 May 2023 23:40:11 +0100 WillInAberdeen
You're perhaps thinking of creosote? Which is (possibly? finally?) being banned for farm fenceposts, so bitumen coating is a safer alternative to that.]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301497#Comment_301497 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301497#Comment_301497 Wed, 10 May 2023 08:38:09 +0100 fostertom Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301509#Comment_301509 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301509#Comment_301509 Thu, 11 May 2023 07:48:36 +0100 Jonti Posted By: WillInAberdeenBitumen is pretty inert and benign, because nothing in the food chain can ingest it, that's one reason why so much is used for roads, roofs, etc.

You're perhaps thinking of creosote? Which is (possibly? finally?) being banned for farm fenceposts, so bitumen coating is a safer alternative to that.

Learn something new every day :bigsmile:]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301625#Comment_301625 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301625#Comment_301625 Tue, 16 May 2023 13:54:07 +0100 Doubting_Thomas Posted By: WillInAberdeenBitumen is pretty inert and benign

It does still contain some carcinogens though, no?

https://www.anses.fr/en/content/exposure-bitumen

"As a distillation residue, bitumen is a blend of various chemical compounds (over 10,000) whose precise composition is impossible to list. In fact, depending on the origin of the raw petroleum used and on the production process applied, many different types of bitumen with diverse properties may be manufactured."

Not necessarily any worse than tanalising but certainly not 'benign'.]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301633#Comment_301633 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301633#Comment_301633 Tue, 16 May 2023 19:46:01 +0100 WillInAberdeen
If we think how many thousands of tonnes of bitumen are spread onto roads and roofs each year without unmanageable ill effects, I'd see bitumen-coated fence posts as an improvement on creosote.]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301634#Comment_301634 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301634#Comment_301634 Tue, 16 May 2023 19:56:49 +0100 philedge Posted By: WillInAberdeen
If we think how many thousands of tonnes of bitumen are spread onto roads and roofs each year without unmanageable ill effects,

As we dont yet know the cause of many of the ailments that mankind suffers, it would probably be prudent to treat most man made chemicals with a degree of caution. I certainly wouldn't want to be breathing the fumes off hot bitumen]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301635#Comment_301635 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301635#Comment_301635 Tue, 16 May 2023 20:02:16 +0100 chrisinbrighton Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301636#Comment_301636 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301636#Comment_301636 Tue, 16 May 2023 20:13:10 +0100 WillInAberdeen
Searching up a Safety Material Data Sheets for bitumen emulsion:

"12 Ecological Toxicity
Bitumen emulsion is not classified as harmful to the environment. There are no specific acute or
chronic eco-toxicity data for the product.

Classified as a non-hazardous waste
Regulatory information: UN number - Not regulated
Not classified as a dangerous substance for conveyance.
The product is not classified as dangerous.

Decomposition Products NON hazardous bitumen and water. The emulsion will NOT burn."


https://www.specifiedby.com/bituchem-asphalt-ltd/polbit-bitumen-emulsion/bituchem-asphalt_Polbit_Specifications_bbp-emulsions-msds-2013.pdf]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301637#Comment_301637 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301637#Comment_301637 Tue, 16 May 2023 20:14:10 +0100 WillInAberdeen Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301638#Comment_301638 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301638#Comment_301638 Tue, 16 May 2023 20:15:00 +0100 fostertom Posted By: WillInAberdeenfence posts don't expose anyone to hot bitumen just all the birds and bees *except* 'anyone'.]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301640#Comment_301640 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301640#Comment_301640 Tue, 16 May 2023 20:21:23 +0100 WillInAberdeen
Posted By: WillInAberdeenbitumen to just above soil height
]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301647#Comment_301647 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301647#Comment_301647 Wed, 17 May 2023 19:18:21 +0100 revor Posted By: WillInAberdeenFarms round here use fenceposts where the pointy end is dipped into bitumen to just above soil height, maybe something like this, or a homebrew version
https://www.tuffdip.com/solution.php" rel="nofollow" >https://www.tuffdip.com/solution.php
Just bought some for some new fencing. Will apply before contractor errects. Fence post on my parcel of land lucky to get 10/12 years out of.]]> Tanalised timber http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301648#Comment_301648 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17828&Focus=301648#Comment_301648 Wed, 17 May 2023 22:18:28 +0100 philedge Posted By: WillInAberdeen'hot' as in 'hot enough to give off fumes' - I imagine Phil is thinking of the hot stuff that is rolled hot onto roads at 100s of degrees C, I did mention that
Yes I quoted and commented on the 2 hot applications you had mentioned]]>