Green Building Forum - Untreated timber for new house Tue, 19 Dec 2023 06:43:48 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Untreated timber for new house http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297804#Comment_297804 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297804#Comment_297804 Mon, 26 Sep 2022 21:22:15 +0100 John Pedersen I've just got planning permission for a 50m2 timber house in France. I own a few acres of forest close by, mostly Oak and some Scott's pine.

I'm wondering about chopping down a few trees to use to build the house - pine for the 6x2's to support the OSB walls, and Oak for the cladding.

I'm intending to build it as airtight as possible and have thick insulation along the lines of the passivehaus standards. This should pretty much eliminate condensation within the structure, so I'm thinking that using my own timber, untreated, might be fine.

I'm still working on the design of the house and beginning to make a tree inventory to see if this idea might work.

Any suggestions or advice would be most welcome.

Thanks.]]> Untreated timber for new house http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297807#Comment_297807 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297807#Comment_297807 Mon, 26 Sep 2022 23:37:34 +0100 Mike1
My main thought is that termites are present in quite a few départements of France; if you're in one then there are are various additional building regulations that apply, which may include avoiding untreated pine. https://termite.com.fr/ would be the place to look for more info.

You may already know that French laws also make DIY housebuilding problematic, unless - to simplify - all the work is done by registered professionals, or unless you avoid selling the place for 10 years after completion.

Apart from that, it sounds like an interesting project :)]]> Untreated timber for new house http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297810#Comment_297810 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297810#Comment_297810 Tue, 27 Sep 2022 00:02:41 +0100 fostertom Untreated timber for new house http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297813#Comment_297813 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297813#Comment_297813 Tue, 27 Sep 2022 08:16:03 +0100 John Pedersen
Termites! Thanks for that heads up. I'm in Correze, on the edge of termite territory. I guess it makes sense then to use treated timber for the structural parts anyway. (Saves a lot of work too!). Plan A was just to use the oak for the cladding and buy in treated pine for the structure, so I'll revert to that if a little more research on termites doesn't preclude it.

I certainly can't afford to hire registered professionals for any of it. I've done a fair bit of building work in the UK, so I'm not fazed about DIY. Also, I'm in no rush. I already have an off grid cabin in the woods. Having planning permission on the neighbouring plot sort of legitimises my current position, so that's good. And my priority is planting up more fruit and nut trees in the fields I have, and looking after the trees I already have. The house can be a spare time project!

It was interesting getting planning permission. I was totally daunted at first, doubtful whether I get get permission for a passivehaus type thing with compost toilet. But it was actually straight forward and free of charge, with even some architectural overview and advice thrown in. Nice! And it turns out, it's now really hard to build anything in France that requires heating! For most houses, this requires a lot of expensive inspections to ensure the building conforms, but for a house of 50 sq m, I don't have to have the inspections (I'll conform to the best of my ability anyway). So, much cheaper.

I have a friend here who built something and sold it within 10 years and is now being sued for a total replacement of the building to fix what seems a fairly minor defect. Since there is no way I'm paying for qualified people to do the work, I'm planning to document the work in great detail as it progresses, so that if it is sold, it can be sold as is, and as documented with no ongoing liability. I don't know how effective this would be in French law, but doing the work myself is a given, so this is the best route I can think of. I'm not planning to sell it within 10 years, but I'm 65, and things are changing fast, inside and outside!

Tom, I am planning to dry the timber. I'm in the planning stages, and if I decide that making my own Oak cladding is the way to go, I'll do that as the very first job, and have the cut timbers airing for at least a year or two.]]> Untreated timber for new house http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297814#Comment_297814 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297814#Comment_297814 Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:15:41 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary
Posted By: John PedersenThe house can be a spare time project!..............but I'm 65, and things are changing fast, inside and outside!

Be careful about doing it on the back burner. From my own experience what I could do at 65 was much different to what I can do at 70 and that is without major problems. Don't underestimate the ravages of time in the pensioner years.

My understanding is that termites will go for hard wood just as much as soft wood so the proposed oak cladding would need treating as well.

Have you cut your own timber before? When I have done this from my forest I have always been surprised at how few useable planks come out of a tree against what I thought I could get from measuring up before felling, especially if you want then square edge and not waney edge. Also the effort of felling, transporting and collection of the (heavy) oak logs along with the cost of the saw mill shouldn't be underestimated (unless you can plank on site, but then that is serious work). Given the work involved and the potential termite problem with your own oak planking perhaps consider treated softwood cladding (and have a good overhang on the roof).]]> Untreated timber for new house http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297819#Comment_297819 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17580&Focus=297819#Comment_297819 Tue, 27 Sep 2022 14:36:26 +0100 Mike1 Posted By: John PedersenI'm planning to document the work in great detail as it progresses, so that if it is sold, it can be sold as is, and as documented with no ongoing liability. I don't know how effective this would be in French lawIt's worth doing anyway, but wouldn't, by itself, change legal liability.

The French system is the inverse of the UK - the concept of 'caveat emptor' / 'sold as is' doesn't apply. The only defects that you can avoid liability for are those that you declare during the sale.

Even after 10 years you can't dodge liability for hidden defects (vices cachés) that would have affected the salability or value; the buyer has 2 years from their discovery to take legal action, even if that's 10 or 20 years after the sale.

Of course undeclared termite damage would count as a hidden defect.

My advice is to make sure that you follow all the French regulations in full and maybe reconsider skipping those inspections, even if they're not mandatory.]]>