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Housing - New Build: Structural Engineer Costs

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2014
     
    The Architect tells me I need a structural engineer to do the calculations for our proposed 300m2 house timber framed house. The structural engineer has quoted a price of £5,250 + VAT. Does that sound reasonable?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2014
     
    No don't take it I will get someone for half that and charge you 10% commission

    The real price should be between 1 and 2k

    My big project last year 500m2 engineer designed rafts and TF for the above, architect got nilch.
    • CommentAuthorslidersx200
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2014 edited
     
    Depending on the timber frame supplier you may be lucky and find that they will supply both structural calculations and drawings for Building Control as part of the package. Most that I spoke to offered this.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2014
     
    Paid a bit over a thousand (£980 + VAT, IIRC) for 60 m² finished floor area, lot bigger overall footprint, Segal-style A-frame a couple of weeks ago. That was significantly lower than the other quotes, though, which were around £1800/£2000 + VAT.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2014
     
    Where are you? Really recommend my regular SE in N Devon - very can-do, and just does calcs and leaves all the drawing-up to me - v economical.
  6.  
    I'm paying £5,600 + VAT for the Structural Engineer on my 270 sq m build in London. It was the cheapest quote I got and includes site visits, initial design, input to the QS for a costing of the project before I submitted planning, construction design, details for the Party Wall notices (I'm building a semi-detached house) and site visits during the build.

    Based on other comments on this thread I might be over paying!
  7.  
    From personal experience, do not assume that the 'big' firms will make any fewer mistakes, or be more penitent about them when they do, than a one-person band.

    Is it stud-work or post and beam? I realised recently some SEs treat the 2 methods as very different 'disciplines'.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014
     
    May be worth getting a copy of this. Wish I had when I did my BSc module in materials and structures:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Structures-Things-Dont-Fall-Down/dp/0306812835
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaMay be worth getting a copy of this. Wish I had when I did my BSc module in materials and structures:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Structures-Things-Dont-Fall-Down/dp/0306812835" >http://www.amazon.co.uk/Structures-Things-Dont-Fall-Down/dp/0306812835

    (Earlier editoins of) That and "The New Science of Strong Materials: Or Why You Don't Fall Through the Floor" by the same author were on the 1st year reading list when I started my Civ Eng degree well over 30 years ago!

    I just double checked & yes I still have them (even though followed a different path after Uni).
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014
     
    Posted By: richardelliot…and includes site visits, initial design, input to the QS for a costing of the project…
    Have to say my SE didn't do any of that. The house designer did the ground conditions report (digger was on site for the access construction, anyway) - SE just produced 2D drawings (tweaked fairly substantially from my & house designer's drawings) and SER certificate. IIRC, the SE would have charged about £300 to look at the ground whereas the house designer only charged £50 and had the flexibility to time it for when the digger was available avoiding additional cost for that.

    So comparing prices doesn't seem to make too much sense without a lot more context.

    And, yes, I wish I'd read a good book on structures and done a lot more of the detailed design myself. Friend did that for his big extension but then he has a degree in aeronautical engineering.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014
     
    Posted By: skyewright(Earlier editoins of) That and "The New Science of Strong Materials: Or Why You Don't Fall Through the Floor" by the same author were on the 1st year reading list when I started my Civ Eng degree well over 30 years ago!
    Wonder if they do an eBook version of it, that should last another 30 years.
    Basic principles are very unlikely to change.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014
     
    I used to do most beams, joists etc as part of the architectural work - but codes became infinitely complicated; employing SEs to apply them resulted in members almost twice as big as I'd been used to. Nothing I did fell down!
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014
     
    Further discussions with the architect reveals he has gone to 2 national companies, so maybe this may be reflected in the quoted price.

    I've now asked him to get 2 local one man bands to quote as a comparison. We will see where that takes us!
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: fostertom;............... employing SEs to apply them resulted in members almost twice as big as I'd been used to. Nothing I did fell down.

    My neighbour's new house extension (SE, design assisted), has to my eye steelwork enough to park half a dozen cars in the new first floor bedroom. Likewise in the new single storey rear extension. To me it seems way over engineered.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2014
     
    A bit of further questioning has highlighted some concerns amongst the structural engineers about the fact we have a semi basement (ie. dug into a slope and open at the front).

    I get the feeling the SE companies are twitchy and have added a contingency to cover their twitchyness. Are basements structurally that difficult and should I be asking a basement specialist to do the structural stuff? Any suggestions?
    • CommentAuthorargy
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2014
     
    It's a ridiculous price. I paid £33k for a 3000 sq ft timber frame house erected and that included the structural engineers calculations. Go to a timber frame company for an all in package and give the responsibility to someone else if some of the drawings prove incorrect and have to changed during erection (there were some minor difficulties with mine) plus save yourself £1k in VAT (zero rated if part of a timber frame package)
    • CommentAuthorNoodle
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2014
     
    some people say it a ridiculous price, it may well be. depends, whats your estimated build cost? whats the design of the building? how many bespoke details? Given that you won't hesitate to come back at the SE if anything goes wrong, remember they are not just charging for doing a few calculations and drawings, they are charging for their experience and to take responsibility.

    Saying that, would recommend at all times minimising number of different firms with cross over and responsibility, timber frame company may do some SE calcs but will prob have caveats for any other works connected to the building and may not even do steels. As a very rough guide i've always thought about 2.5% of estimated budget is average. Would second going for local firms, big or small doesn't matter, more so check what you're getting. One engineer may do their own drawings, details and extensive spec while another will just mark up Architects drawings and brief sketches. Depends what you need.....
    • CommentAuthorhairydude
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2014
     
    Where are you Triassic? In Scotland the engineer issues an SEE cert which must cover all structural aspects including ground conditions. This is sensible - some timber frame certs I've seen cover only the tf panels - no input on the whole house design.
    I would expect to pay £1k - £2k for a new house SER with a decent set of structural drawings (based on my original CAD Dwgs).
    The basement adds hours/cost to the engineer's input but your quote is still high imo.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2014
     
    I'm in Cumbria.

    Having discussed who does what, we have concluded we only need structural calculations for the foundations, basement and concrete slab ceiling/floor. The Timber Frame calculations will be sorted by the TF company.

    Structural calculation costs down to £1350 + VAT.

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