Green Building Forum - Cameron - climate change or not Tue, 19 Dec 2023 07:38:09 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192936#Comment_192936 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192936#Comment_192936 Wed, 08 Jan 2014 17:59:10 +0000 Triassic
In comments that are likely to anger some Conservatives who are sceptical of climate change, the Prime Minister told MPs: “We are seeing more abnormal weather events. Colleagues across the house can argue about whether that is linked to climate change or not. I very much suspect that it is."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/10559114/David-Cameron-very-much-suspects-climate-change-causing-abnormal-weather-such-as-floods.html

Surly not!!]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192945#Comment_192945 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192945#Comment_192945 Wed, 08 Jan 2014 18:30:53 +0000 jamesingram Is the green they're referring to just the little tree in the tory emblem ?
Perhaps it's to do with the PM and chancellors lack of broad experience.
Either way, no one with any sense would expect anything but the same old, same old from the business as usual
back slapping, palm greasing felchmeisters.]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192951#Comment_192951 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192951#Comment_192951 Wed, 08 Jan 2014 19:18:33 +0000 Ed Davies Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192958#Comment_192958 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192958#Comment_192958 Wed, 08 Jan 2014 20:03:51 +0000 jamesingram Forecasters apologising for rain . What's all that about ?]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192963#Comment_192963 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192963#Comment_192963 Wed, 08 Jan 2014 20:29:04 +0000 SteamyTea Posted By: Ed DaviesAre we seeing more abnormal weather in the UKWe have had similar before, but I think the recent 'blocking events' of the last 4 winters is abnormal.
"Climate is what you expect and weather is what you get".
Temperature wise it has been mild.

One problem of gauging 'bad weather' is the amount of damage it causes. That can be very variable. Not much damage down here as we are used to high winds and some local flooding (Perranporth floods about 3 times a year), so you can't rely on the media to paint an accurate story.

Posted By: jamesingramsince when did we have to emotionalise a weather forecast
A few summers back, a very wet one, had a lady in the shop who was from Norfolk, she burst into tears when she saw the weather forecast for another weeks rain. So been going on for a few years :wink:]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192966#Comment_192966 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192966#Comment_192966 Wed, 08 Jan 2014 20:50:49 +0000 Joiner Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192986#Comment_192986 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192986#Comment_192986 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 10:36:30 +0000 fostertom Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192988#Comment_192988 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192988#Comment_192988 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 10:50:28 +0000 SteamyTea Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192991#Comment_192991 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192991#Comment_192991 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:23:51 +0000 jamesingram ]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192992#Comment_192992 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192992#Comment_192992 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:27:58 +0000 Roger Miserable to who? I quite like a bit of drizzle, so stick to the facts!"

(A Country Practice) Half Man Half Biscuit]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192999#Comment_192999 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=192999#Comment_192999 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:55:09 +0000 fostertom Posted By: SteamyTeaWe get the politicians and the media we deserve.Which 'we'?]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193002#Comment_193002 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193002#Comment_193002 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:09:06 +0000 bot de paille
Hows it going with good old Obama now?]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193004#Comment_193004 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193004#Comment_193004 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:14:35 +0000 Triassic Posted By: fostertom
Posted By: SteamyTeaWe get the politicians and the media we deserve.
Which 'we'? Obviously those in the majority who voted got the politicians, local and national, they wanted. Everyone else got what they deserved, so no use moaning, VOTE next time.

Media, what a joke.]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193006#Comment_193006 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193006#Comment_193006 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:34:50 +0000 fostertom Posted By: Triassicthose ... who voted got the politicians ... they wantedI don't think so - adversarial 'democracy' guarantees that at least half or much more 'lose', get what they don't want, and put their energies into manoeuvring to get their own back 'next time'. This system can claim no lineage back to hallowed ancient Greek democracy - it's just traditional despotism re-branded except now 'we the people' are told we have the power - and we believe that and fight despots' wars for it! Do we really feel we 'have the power'? Don't say "hardly, it's imperfect, but there is no alternative".

Mrs T - There Is No Alternative (TINA).
'Wets' - There Exist Several Spendid Alternatives (TESSA).

And yes, bot, the ritual left/right polarity (as if anything else is just fluffy) is another part of our trance.]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193007#Comment_193007 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193007#Comment_193007 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:37:57 +0000 jamesingram "Obviously those in the majority who voted got the politicians, local and national, they wanted"
I'm not sure the 'majority' did get that.
This is why many don't vote. I have sympathy with them. Why legitimise or bother with a system which to many appears to be a bit of a pantomime and of little effect to their daily lives. (Though I must admit my local MP seems pretty good) .]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193009#Comment_193009 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193009#Comment_193009 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:40:56 +0000 jamesingram Do we really feel we 'have the power'?.Is spending power the only real effective one left ?]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193014#Comment_193014 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193014#Comment_193014 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 13:10:29 +0000 fostertom Posted By: jamesingramSpeak for ourself:bigsmile:]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193015#Comment_193015 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193015#Comment_193015 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 13:14:05 +0000 bot de paille
I was brought up in a "leftwing" household, where Thatcher was the Baddie. I thought the left were the good guys. I have since learnt that the supposed good guy "radicals" can be just as fascist if not worse in shutting down any voice of opinion that seeks an alternative view, to question or creates discussion or debate.

People damn the ineffective/establishment media in one breath, whilst at the same time they try to shut down debate that threatens their world view with the next.

thus the statusquo continues and we wonder why, whilst in fact continuing a closed minded mentality very much part of the problem. So yes we do get the system/politicians we deserve because they are an external reflection of our inner close minded egos.]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193017#Comment_193017 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193017#Comment_193017 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 13:24:55 +0000 djh Posted By: Joiner"In Scotland, there is no such thing as bad weather - only the wrong clothes." - Billy Connelly
That's very true. Appropriate clothes make a huge difference. Just like having the right tools makes life so much easier.]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193026#Comment_193026 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193026#Comment_193026 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:27:14 +0000 fostertom
Then for a mere 6k yrs' 'learning period' (agriculture, cities, states etc), the Law of the Jungle was substituted - 'Survival of the Fittest', as unprecedented surpluses made un-egalitarian grabbing feasible. This, as we now at last see, has brought the global eco-system close to collapse.

The new despots told us
"Law of the Jungle is human nature - so get used to it".
But that was and is a self-serving lie, as we're now at last beginning to re-discover.

Finally, for the last 250yrs, the western despots got even cleverer -
"Law of the Jungle is human nature - but that's OK - ruthless Market Forces will automatically bring the Greatest Good and adversarial Democracy will give Power to the People. So get out there and kill (or enslave) all who disagree!"
Neat, eh?

Adversarial democracy locks-in the sad notion that human nature is such that we can't reach understandings but can only struggle to defeat opponents. By that strategy, we and our elected gladiator-politicians put all our energies and attention onto the circus, while the real despots get on with asset-stripping the planet unhindered.

It's kill or cure time. We may kill the planet and ourselves by continued Law of the Jungle. Or we may just in time re-establish Law of the Eco-system - 'Survival of those who fit in'.
We may rediscover the human ability to keep talking until we reach egalitarian, consensual agreement, which is age-old Human Nature (which actually never went away). This will need a new name, other than debased 'democracy'.

Lots and lots of work happening now, to create or to simply re-discover practical new forms of 'governance' if that's the word for it. Previous revolutions neglected to do that, and became just another despot-opportunity; today's revolutions see despot-proofing as almost their core task.

I'm told that in egalitarian consensual Australian Aborigine societies, anyone who shows signs of wanting to take charge or get their way is gently sidelined, as they're obviously unhinged.]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193028#Comment_193028 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193028#Comment_193028 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:47:18 +0000 SteamyTea Glad to see you still don't believe in economic theories but prefer speculation and extrapolation :bigsmile:]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193031#Comment_193031 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193031#Comment_193031 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 15:42:11 +0000 jamesingram Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193032#Comment_193032 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193032#Comment_193032 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 15:46:31 +0000 bot de paille
Scientists rediscovering what the ancients already new...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odJxJRAxdFU]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193033#Comment_193033 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193033#Comment_193033 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 15:57:38 +0000 SteamyTea http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VlWonYfN3A]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193041#Comment_193041 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193041#Comment_193041 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 17:43:18 +0000 fostertom Posted By: SteamyTeayou still don't believe in economic theories but prefer speculation and extrapolation"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone" - John Maynard Keynes.
Presumably through the automatic process of Market Forces (if that's what 'economic theories' means?).

It's a peculiarly English/19C/libertarian mistrust of human intention ("speculation and extrapolation"), preferring instead inexorable, impersonal, perfect mechanisms - classic Darwinism is another of them, Marxism, fundamentalist sects, anything reassuringly God-given from outside 'us'.]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193043#Comment_193043 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193043#Comment_193043 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 18:00:51 +0000 SteamyTea
'Market Forces' are just another term for the 'Invisible Hand'.

What most people don't like and don't fully understand is that society drives the economy (the wisdom of the masses) and not governments, businesses, dictators, prophets or such like, they just speed up or slow down the inevitable change.

The Green Deal is a classic example of trying to change something by tackling the wrong end (the demand end) rather than where the problem is (the supply end). The Government did this with accountancy principles and not economic principles, Thankfully the wisdom of the masses has shown it for what it is.]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193048#Comment_193048 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193048#Comment_193048 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 18:40:17 +0000 Joiner Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193049#Comment_193049 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193049#Comment_193049 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 18:52:07 +0000 jamesingram
As I suspected, economic theory, a system more akin to religious belief :cheer: praise be !]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193050#Comment_193050 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193050#Comment_193050 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 19:03:06 +0000 SteamyTea ]]> Cameron - climate change or not http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193051#Comment_193051 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11594&Focus=193051#Comment_193051 Thu, 09 Jan 2014 19:06:23 +0000 jamesingram
But then again, perhaps something altogether better ?]]>