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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2018 edited
     
    I'm consider building the classic end of the garden utility building
    3m/8m
    Single story mono pitch PV roof, with work store, bike shed and office/sitting around space.

    First thought was stick build with OSB , featheredge , insulated office space only
    from the inside : OSB ,quilt in between stud, some board insulation outside studs,baton, felt, baton, featheredge.

    Then I thought of 100mm block, with pillars , 150-200mm EPS , thincoat render.
    which is simple and probably cheaper.
    Be good to not need to heat it.

    then I thought of digging a cellar !

    It's just a case of digging a hole, slab at the bottom and another 2-2.4m of blockwork, perhaps 150-225mm
    and sticking a floor in, right ? :bigsmile:
    So I'd drop the EWI about 1m below gnd level and tank it up to DPC internally.

    Any bright ideas on how to do it better, especially the cellar bit ?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2018
     
    Is this a semi-basement i.e. main floor half a level up, basement below? Gd idea - makes much sense, common in N Europe.
  1.  
    I was thinking full basement Tom due to permit development height restrictions on garden buildings being 3m to eaves I think.
    But yes semi basements are a great idea shame it's not done more in the UK.
    I was just wondering what the best environmentally conscious solution to such a building would be. ( other than not building it at all)
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2018
     
    My brother used to have a big koi pond. 6m x 3m x 2m. Most of the 2m depth was dug, but some ( ~.5m?) was an upstand. The former pond is now a basement to a shed!
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: jamesingram3m to eaves
    How about low-eave room-in-roof?
  2.  
    James, not sure you'll be allowed under PD if you are looking to go to maximum ground-to-eaves heights *plus* cellar.

    I cut into a slope for my shed in order to maximise usable space, The ridge height is 4m (allowable under PD). The eaves height at the (side) door(s) is about 2.0m from (existing) decking to eaves, so less than the 2.5m (on a pitched roof) allowed under PD.

    I 'tried this on' via an informal enquiry, which was answered in writing. I do not have the letter to hand, but the gist was that the height from *shed floor* (or in fact the bottom of the shed floor joists and the posts) mattered, so my shed was 4m to ridge (complies with PD) and 3.0m at eaves (not compliant with PD). I had to do a Planning app. No objections; no problem.
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2018 edited
     
    I think the hight should be measured from ground level - if the site slopes from the highest ground level next to the new building. This link (https://planningjungle.com/wp-content/uploads/Part-1-of-the-GPDO-The-10-Worst-Permitted-Development-Loopholes.pdf) shows what is possible for height at No.2

    The document may be out of date - don't take it as gospel.

    Once you go to more than 1 floor then building regs come into play.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2018
     
    The official guidance is at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/permitted-development-rights-for-householders-technical-guidance

    Note that basements are not PD, nor are rooms above garages etc - additional buildings must be single storey.

    Total heights are 4m for duo-pitch; 2.5 m within 2 m of boundary and 3 m otherwise, and "The height of the building, enclosure or container should be measured from the highest ground level immediately adjacent to the building, enclosure, or container to its highest point".

    Eaves limit is 2.5 m.
  3.  
    In my case I was trying to get them to agree that the (higher) decking level was the 'highest ground level', whereas they took the view that it was simply the highest *approach level*, and that I was entering 1m above ground level.
  4.  
    How about sticking a ship container in the hole and building off that ? Now there's an idea , probably would need any footing then.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2018
     
    Rust?
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: Nick ParsonsIn my case I was trying to get them to agree that the (higher) decking level was the 'highest ground level', whereas they took the view that it was simply the highest *approach level*, and that I was entering 1m above ground level.


    My take is that both are wrong. Heights should taken from the highest ground level around the proposed building perimeter without cheating by filling, excavating or decking. If you have ground level at the back of the building that is higher than the decking - you can use that as a zero point. Once you have established that zero point you can then work out the level of the Eaves, Ridge, decking (if required/wanted). If you then need to build up the ground level and/or decking to get to the door so be it.
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2018
     
    Posted By: goodevansMy take is that both are wrong. Heights should taken from the highest ground level around the proposed building perimeter without cheating by filling, excavating or decking.

    It's easy to imagine why authorities would take the absolute opposite view, i.e. taking height form the lowest ground level, so that the maximum visual impact of the building is considered?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2018
     
    Posted By: skyewright
    Posted By: goodevansMy take is that both are wrong. Heights should taken from the highest ground level around the proposed building perimeter without cheating by filling, excavating or decking.

    It's easy to imagine why authorities would take the absolute opposite view, i.e. taking height form the lowest ground level, so that the maximum visual impact of the building is considered?

    Well yes, except that the guidance says what goodevans stated (in England, anyway) so they'd be on a path to a court defeat.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2018
     
    GDPO 2015 (Consiolidated) as of June 2018 says:

    "Unless the context otherwise requires, any reference in this Order to the height of a building or of plant or machinery is to be construed as a reference to its height when measured from ground level; and for the purposes of this paragraph “ground level” means the level of the surface of the ground immediately adjacent to the building or plant or machinery in question or, where the level of the surface of the ground on which it is situated or is to be situated is not uniform, the level of the highest part of the surface of the ground adjacent to it."

    They can't argue with that.
  5.  
    well now thats cleared up , how about the build practicalities
    ewi/Block or wood
    cellar or not
    simplist cellar construction
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2018
     
    I thought external tanking was more reliable than internal?
  6.  
    fiddly though
  7.  
    would external tanking be warmer than internal tanking?

    The thought being that with external tanking the wall will be dry whilst tanking internally will give a wall wet up to the tanking and I would have thought a wet wall will conduct heat better than a dry wall.

    Also tanking externally the water pressure is pushing the tanking on to the wall whereas internally the water pressure is pushing the tanking off. - does it work like that ??

    Irrespective of the tanking what about EPS EWI on the cellar walls and floor - depending upon what the cellar is to be used for. And don't forget provision for cross ventilation - a couple of 110mm drain pipes as tubes up to above ground level on opposite walls should do.
  8.  
    We found that having a small two storey extension was a waste as we had to give up a lot of floor space on both levels to make a stair well, plus messing with bannisters, and good floor space became used as corridor to access the stairs.

    How are you thinking of accessing the cellar?
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