Green Building Forum - Blocked outlet pipe Tue, 19 Dec 2023 04:01:22 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304508#Comment_304508 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304508#Comment_304508 Wed, 06 Dec 2023 13:43:42 +0000 Rex
We own a first floor maisonette, built around 1960 ish, which we rent out.

The drainage from the kitchen (sink and washing machine) exit in a 4" ceramic trap on the ground near the g/f neighbour's kitchen door. Although I have asked the tenants to limit their use of oil/fat in cooking and please use liquid detergent in the washing machine, about every six months, the outlet in the 4" sump gets clogged with something (fatball?)

It is inconvenient for the g/f neighbour who expects me as the DIY (ie. cheapskate) flat maintenance expert, to clear it. Never once has he even offered a bottle of 'thank you' wine. Unfortunately, the drainage pipe extends about 2" into the 4" sump, making in impossible to get ones hand in to clear the blockage. Jet wash generally is what I use.

However, my question, is there any liquid that I can squirt into the sump that will 'dislodge/dissolve' the fatball?

Thanks and toodle pip]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304525#Comment_304525 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304525#Comment_304525 Thu, 07 Dec 2023 09:34:30 +0000 tony Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304531#Comment_304531 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304531#Comment_304531 Fri, 08 Dec 2023 11:33:12 +0000 Rex
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Orange-Cleaning-Relief-Cleaner-Flexible/dp/B07WDP6TRH

Look like something worth having in stock.

Unfortunately, The respective properties are maisonettes; I own ( and rent out) the first floor, obviously the neighbour owns the ground floor. He is totally, a full 100% non-DIY and loads many various issues onto my shoulders.

Under the terms of the lease, I am responsible for everything above me and he is responsible for everything below me. With those terms, I would be responsible for his chimney, likewise his water tank which is in my loft. It has never come to that.

This drain, which certainly is my kitchen sink and washing machine, is of course on his property. It was a bad design from the get-go and the best solution would be to replace it. Since the downpipe is not external, how 'easy' is it likely to be to replace the outlet / sump?

As I say above, it seems to be a 4" sump and the outlet pipe which cannot be seen in this photo protrudes into the sump around 2", making it extremely difficult to get ones hand inside and 'scoop' out the gunk.

Since this original is all ceramic, would replacing it with modern plastic and a slightly better outlet that does not protrude, somewhat alleviate the issue? From this drain, it is only about 1 meter to the main sewerage inspection chamber.]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304533#Comment_304533 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304533#Comment_304533 Fri, 08 Dec 2023 12:23:15 +0000 djh
Maybe replace/modify the outlet pipe so it does not protrude so much into the sump, or change the sump for a bigger one to allow easier access?]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304538#Comment_304538 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304538#Comment_304538 Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:11:10 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary
Alternatively cut off the 2" protrusion into the 4" sump which should make cleaning easier.]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304540#Comment_304540 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304540#Comment_304540 Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:51:21 +0000 Rex
Cutting the protruding pipe a bit. Again, have thought of that but the pipe is around one foot (may be a bit less) below the surface of the water and again, f***-all space. Perhaps a hacksaw blade without the hack saw? But that is unlikely to resolve future blocking problems, just make cleaning easier. Am going there on Monday as I have an EPC guy coming so will take a hacksaw.

Yes, the sink does have a trap; don't recall if the washing machine does. Don't think there is any chance of connecting the upstream directly to the downstream in such a confined space but that would be the preferable option.

Will post a result when I have it running again.]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304543#Comment_304543 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304543#Comment_304543 Fri, 08 Dec 2023 17:52:17 +0000 Jonti Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304554#Comment_304554 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304554#Comment_304554 Sun, 10 Dec 2023 17:18:24 +0000 Dominic Cooney Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304555#Comment_304555 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304555#Comment_304555 Mon, 11 Dec 2023 17:47:56 +0000 Rex
Tried to trim with a hacksaw but insufficient room. Certainly a multi-tool would do the job and perhaps I will buy one. May be able to get an angle grinder is as the pipe is near the top. Although, I think a junior hacksaw may do the job.

This is a photo of the sump with said copper down-pipe. Old style, ceramic sump, about 40 cms deep with the outlet at the bottom at about the seven o'clock position. It goes towards an inspection chamber around 2m away. Could only get either the drain snake or my 10m long flexible pressure washer hose around 15cms into the horizontal outlet so assume there is a U-bend / trap under the path.

What is the secret of clearing around a U_bend?

Thanks for the suggestions and toodle pip]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304557#Comment_304557 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304557#Comment_304557 Mon, 11 Dec 2023 21:52:29 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary If it is the ground floor occupant perhaps the hard ball solution is to nothing and when complaints arise quote the lease and point out it is their liability and get new plastic fittings installed that are easy clean (rodding eye?) at his expense.

Otherwise you can get drill attachments for drain cleaning e.g. https://drainbrain.com/en/products/drill-snake/ (there are others) which may prove useful for a U bend

Edit to say the ceramic sump in the photo looks cracked and past its sell by date so a change probably should be contemplated anyway - and would that be down to the ground floor owner under the terms of the lease?]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304559#Comment_304559 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304559#Comment_304559 Tue, 12 Dec 2023 07:46:10 +0000 philedge
I wouldn't even consider that a hard ball option. It seems quite fair and reasonable for the neighbour to it sort out]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304563#Comment_304563 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304563#Comment_304563 Tue, 12 Dec 2023 15:38:16 +0000 Rex
On a more realistic level, my roof does keep him dry and his foundations and walls, do support my f/f flat. So I do believe that that if work needs to be done to the roof or drains, there should be an agreement of some kind. However, as I said above, although in his later 20's, he is 100% non-practical but think he know lots. The next time his downpipe is blocked by leaves, that have washed down from my roof, I may tell him that they are not my leaves so perhaps he should ask the neighbours who have the trees, to clear his blockage!

And agreed, the ceramic sump has seen better days.

I do hold a major trump card though as his cold water cistern and radiator expansion tanks are in my loft!!!! When he bought the place, I do not recall his surveyor asking to come and inspect the loft or whether the tank insulation is sufficient. It is, as I have added a little more since I do not what his tank to freeze and leak into my flat.]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304565#Comment_304565 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304565#Comment_304565 Tue, 12 Dec 2023 17:18:50 +0000 GreenPaddy
looks to me like a Buchan trap maybe. Used to work as the final trap between house and municipal sewers. Does it act as a surface water drain, as well as taking your grey water (modification at some point)? That would help determine the scope of any possible future replacement.]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304597#Comment_304597 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304597#Comment_304597 Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:07:36 +0000 Rex
Looking at Wiki about Buchan traps, don't really think it is one of those. As for the cracks, I think the copper pipe was added by drilling through the ceramic and probably broken X years ago; well before we took ownership.

Against the wall of the property and about30cms to the left, is a similar set-up but that is for the g/f flat. In their case, the kitchen waste exits through the wall and is externally piped to the drain. I guess there is a chance that both are merged before going to the main sewerage, but I don't know.

I will reduce the length the copper protrudes and probably do nothing until the next phone call.]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304622#Comment_304622 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304622#Comment_304622 Sat, 16 Dec 2023 12:08:02 +0000 Jonti
I am somewhat perplexed as to why the neighbour has anything to do with your blocked drain. Assuming the drain is serving just your flat and you are in the UK then it is entirely your responsibility as the owner/landlord. I would suggest as this is a known problem that you get it fixed properly as you will also be responsible for any damage a blockage causes to the ground floor property.
You are responsible for the roof as it is yours. You are legally required to maintain your property in an orderly condition. You could require the ground floor flat to remove all his infrastructure from your loft so long as there is nothing in the deeds giving them an entitlement to having it there.]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304626#Comment_304626 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304626#Comment_304626 Sat, 16 Dec 2023 15:17:07 +0000 borpin Posted By: Rexthe outlet in the 4" sump gets clogged with something (fatball?)
Posted By: RexThis is a photo of the sump with said copper down-pipe. Old style, ceramic sump, about 40 cms deep with the outlet at the bottom at about the seven o'clock position. It goes towards an inspection chamber around 2m away.
Have you lifted the Inspection chamber? If so have you tried the pressure washer the wrong way?

If properly clear, you would not expect it to block easily or quickly even if fat is being put down it.

This suggests to me something is lodged (like those plastic clip over toilet bowl fresheners) in the U bend part.

I'd also expect that a flexible pressure washer hose would go round that U Bend which again points to something lodged.

It might be time to call in a professional :bigsmile:]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304644#Comment_304644 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304644#Comment_304644 Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:23:58 +0000 Rex
I do know that the term 'inspection chamber is a bit of a misnomer. The cover is actually two parts and when lifted, the space below is around 2m deep and really is a 'chamber.' Not just a rodding point. if it was easy to lift, I would have done so.

Agreed that the washing hose should get around the bend but it feels as if it is hitting something solid. it is draining at the moment so will cut off the outlet pipe and leave until the next time.]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304648#Comment_304648 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304648#Comment_304648 Sun, 17 Dec 2023 16:42:55 +0000 djh Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304650#Comment_304650 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304650#Comment_304650 Sun, 17 Dec 2023 17:55:30 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary A borescope (occasionally called a boroscope, though this spelling is nonstandard) is an optical instrument designed to assist visual inspection of narrow, difficult-to-reach cavities, consisting of a rigid or flexible tube with an eyepiece or display on one end, an objective lens or camera on the other, linked together by an optical or electrical system in between.............................Similar devices for use inside the human body are referred to as endoscopes. Borescopes are mostly used in nondestructive testing techniques for recognizing defects or imperfections.]]> Blocked outlet pipe http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304667#Comment_304667 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18044&Focus=304667#Comment_304667 Mon, 18 Dec 2023 13:23:11 +0000 Rex
Have one that plugs into the phone. Is very useful for finding or seeing nuts/ bolts in the car engine, behind cupboards, in dark holes, etc, but when anything with dirty water is involved, totally useless.

Tried feeding it into a pipe once and sowing to gravity, it sits in the wet gunge at the bottom of the pipe and blocks the lens. If there was a way to suspend it in the middle of the pipe, out of the gunge, it may be good, but as is, a complete waste of time.]]>