Green Building Forum - Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation Tue, 19 Dec 2023 04:37:11 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299664#Comment_299664 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299664#Comment_299664 Mon, 16 Jan 2023 12:47:22 +0000 fostertom See latest https://passivehouseplus.co.uk/issuu/uk-edition p38]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299665#Comment_299665 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299665#Comment_299665 Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:23:53 +0000 lngn2 Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299666#Comment_299666 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299666#Comment_299666 Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:37:58 +0000 revor There was a Grand Designs I watched a couple of weeks or so ago where a couple had a modular factory build complete with plumbing electrics kitchen bath etc and craned together on sight and coupled up. The second floor of 1 unit was skewed at an angle so house did not look too boxy. Seemed to work quite well I thought.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299667#Comment_299667 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299667#Comment_299667 Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:51:01 +0000 WillInAberdeen
I'm not sure that a trailerpark- sized cabin complies with the minimum space standard - anyone know?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/15/priced-out-uk-house-hunters-turn-to-lorry-sized-tiny-homes

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/technical-housing-standards-nationally-described-space-standard/technical-housing-standards-nationally-described-space-standard#technical-requirements

Think there's some stuff in Part M about space requirements too.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299692#Comment_299692 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299692#Comment_299692 Tue, 17 Jan 2023 12:49:39 +0000 borpin Posted By: WillInAberdeenI'm not sure that a trailerpark- sized cabin complies with the minimum space standard - anyone know?The cabins (rather than the mobile homes) can't be far off 50m².

Yes agree they should meet this and equally totally possible with modular units. 7mx10m isn't huge (my garage is almost as big as this)!

Posted By: fostertomI'd like to see factory built 'cabin' accommodation"
I have the mag sitting here ready to read :bigsmile:

There is a policy within SG (Scottish Government) AIUI, that is offering grants to councils for this type of scheme.

All the negative arguments did not come up with a suggested alternative to getting accommodation built quickly to give everyone the opportunity of a decent place to live.

Disrupting the current housing market is exactly what is needed!]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299695#Comment_299695 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299695#Comment_299695 Tue, 17 Jan 2023 15:33:30 +0000 philedge Posted By: borpin
Yes agree they should meet this and equally totally possible with modular units. 7mx10m isn't huge (my garage is almost as big as this)!

My lad lives in Seoul and is quite happy in a circa 40m2 apartment and that's noticeably bigger than his previous one. I think in the UK we get a bit mixed up with need and want]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299696#Comment_299696 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299696#Comment_299696 Tue, 17 Jan 2023 15:50:17 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: borpinDisrupting the current housing market is exactly what is needed!
As may be, but too much disruption could have significant impact on mortgage holders potentially pushing them into years of negative equity and private landlords who rely on buy to let for their pension. (with about 40% of B2L landlords supplementing their pension with B2L)]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299698#Comment_299698 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299698#Comment_299698 Tue, 17 Jan 2023 17:15:21 +0000 Dominic Cooney I come across this quite often because some small field barns are too small to meet this minimum.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299699#Comment_299699 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299699#Comment_299699 Tue, 17 Jan 2023 18:03:12 +0000 Jonti Posted By: Peter_in_Hungary
Posted By: borpinDisrupting the current housing market is exactly what is needed!

As may be, but too much disruption could have significant impact on mortgage holders potentially pushing them into years of negative equity and private landlords who rely on buy to let for their pension. (with about 40% of B2L landlords supplementing their pension with B2L)

Which is worse though. Negative equity or no home?

As for B2L, much of the housing problems can be attributed to this odious product. It a parasitical way to enrich oneself. I realise some will be very upset by my take on this but I fail to see and moral argument that can be made for it.

I think philedge is correct with the need verses want angle.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299703#Comment_299703 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299703#Comment_299703 Tue, 17 Jan 2023 20:03:20 +0000 borpin Posted By: JontiWhich is worse though. Negative equity or no home?Negative equity is only an issue if you want to sell (or remortgage, but that could be ironed out by regulation). Stopping the house price escalator is a good thing. That of course has been caused by banks being willing to lend ludicrous income multiples.

B2L has it's place, arguably has helped in some instances to increase rented property availability. However, the house price spiral caused by the banks is the really odious part of it.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299709#Comment_299709 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299709#Comment_299709 Tue, 17 Jan 2023 20:46:16 +0000 fostertom Posted By: borpinthe house price spiral caused by the banksand the other single largest cause is demand for houses being bought to rent out - capital gain (like owner/occupiers) but the mortgage comfortably paid meanwhile as well (unlike owner/occupiers), ever better as attainable rents (in the politically-created absence of social housing) escalate. A small-capitalist's wet dream!

If ever raw capitalism needed to be put in check by public intervention rather than connivance, this unholy wheeze on poor people needs to be ended - instead accountable social housing.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299711#Comment_299711 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299711#Comment_299711 Tue, 17 Jan 2023 22:29:50 +0000 Jonti Posted By: borpin
Posted By: JontiWhich is worse though. Negative equity or no home?
Negative equity is only an issue if you want to sell (or remortgage, but that could be ironed out by regulation). Stopping the house price escalator is a good thing. That of course has been caused by banks being willing to lend ludicrous income multiples.

B2L has it's place, arguably has helped in some instances to increase rented property availability. However, the house price spiral caused by the banks is the really odious part of it.

I agree with the first part but not with the B2L bit. IMO B2L has no place a society with a social conscience.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299712#Comment_299712 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299712#Comment_299712 Wed, 18 Jan 2023 07:00:28 +0000 borpin Posted By: JontiIMO B2L has no place a society with a social conscience.So no landlords except the govenment and non-profit organisations? I presume you are refering to domestic properties only? :bigsmile:

Drifted quite a way OT :bigsmile:]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299713#Comment_299713 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299713#Comment_299713 Wed, 18 Jan 2023 08:47:32 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: JontiIMO B2L has no place a society with a social conscience.
If there is no B2L what happens to those not entitled to social housing.
I have one tenant who is renting whilst they renovate the house they have just bought and another who lost their house through their own financial mismanagement and at the age of 60ish can't get a mortgage (plus no credit rating) but can well afford to rent in the private sector.

Back to the thread subject and pre-fab units. It should be much easier to maintain standards of PH in a controlled factory environment. As said more times above I can't see PH standards being met with traditional volume house building methods. I'm not sure how much variation will be available for the new factory build methods, the 60s song about ticky tacky boxes comes to mind and I can see some society stigma approaching so the benefits of PH will need to be sold along with the notion of pre-fabs.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299714#Comment_299714 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299714#Comment_299714 Wed, 18 Jan 2023 10:43:26 +0000 fostertom Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryI can see some society stigma approachingIt's clear to me, as Architect who has de facto come to specialise in domestic works for private clients, that it's a diminishing clientelle who can afford it - the sector's days are numbered (and it's a strange career for someone with lefty leanings). It's pretty much limited to those private pensioners who have been politically lucky within the vagaries of the pensions system (many more haven't) and have recession-proof cash pension pots to dispose. No one now can finance this stuff from a current salary, except the 'rich' few. And such fat pension deals are dying with the current crop of pensioners. So this line of work will see me out, but is ending.

I'm talking about traditional labour-intensive on-site ways of building or altering/extending/improving the private housing stock, including eco-retrofitting. And also, tho not my field, landlords' work on buy-to-let properties, which I do understand, is a crippling (hence bare-minimum) expense that threatens to upset that cushy number (another reason to make rentals a matter for social housing).

So, if the ability to afford such building work, hitherto the 'right' of the broad middle classes, is becoming the preserve of the 'rich' few, then yes being too poor may acquire a social stigma - but only as one aspect of being not 'rich'. And great swathes of private housing will remain un-altered/extended/improved, let alone eco-retrofitted, as adequate private funds dry up - and that bedrock, easy-entry sector of building industry employment will also disappear. That's strange to say, after recent over-demand/under-supply of small builders, with rocketing prices and slap-happy work, tho now changing, with recession worries.

As so much of the products of the economy, that we buy, are becoming automated, at crashing price, those products which remain labour intensive (schooling, health, traditional building industry etc) look relatively more and more expensive, within the whole economy. There's no way round that, for as long as 'earning a living' is the only 'respectable' way that the proceeds of a society's economic activity can reach the pockets of the society's members. Scrap that old myth and possibilities open up.

Until (and including) then, mechanisation/robotisation of the building industry at all levels, both newbuild (easy) and upgrading the existing building stock (much ingenuity/AI still to be applied) is a societal necessity, long delayed by timid governments.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299725#Comment_299725 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299725#Comment_299725 Wed, 18 Jan 2023 18:31:34 +0000 borpin Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryI can see some society stigma approaching so the benefits of PH will need to be sold along with the notion of pre-fabs.You tell folk they will cost (virtually) nothing to heat (remember the PV on the roof as well) and they will be falling over themselves to move in. The real trick is preventing them becoming ghettos - strong on site management, community councils etc is required I'd suggest.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299727#Comment_299727 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299727#Comment_299727 Wed, 18 Jan 2023 18:52:26 +0000 Jonti Posted By: borpin
Posted By: JontiIMO B2L has no place a society with a social conscience.
So no landlords except the govenment and non-profit organisations? I presume you are refering to domestic properties only?http:///newforum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/bigsmile.gif" alt=":bigsmile:" title=":bigsmile:" >

Drifted quite a way OThttp:///newforum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/bigsmile.gif" alt=":bigsmile:" title=":bigsmile:" >

B2L mortgages didn't exist before 1996 so to suggest it is only way to finance the rental sector is incorrect. It has added to the increase in house prices, removed valuable housing from the home owner sector and created an artificial need for rental property. It has also allowed those with a little more to effectively enrich themselves at the expense of those who have not.




Posted By: Peter_in_Hungary
Posted By: JontiIMO B2L has no place a society with a social conscience.

If there is no B2L what happens to those not entitled to social housing.


B2L has nothing to do with social housing so I am at a loss as to why you would link them.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299728#Comment_299728 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299728#Comment_299728 Wed, 18 Jan 2023 19:02:31 +0000 Jeff B Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299729#Comment_299729 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299729#Comment_299729 Wed, 18 Jan 2023 19:03:58 +0000 Jeff B Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299733#Comment_299733 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299733#Comment_299733 Wed, 18 Jan 2023 21:52:47 +0000 Jonti Posted By: Jeff BJonti - I think what PiH is saying is: if B2L was banned then there would surely be a dearth of privately rented properties and those not entitled to social housing would find it extremely difficult or impossible to rent one.

You might be right and It is a good point but then those same people would find plenty more houses to buy would be available which is what many of them want to.]]> Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299734#Comment_299734 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17695&Focus=299734#Comment_299734 Wed, 18 Jan 2023 23:06:07 +0000 Jeff B Posted By: Jonti
Posted By: Jeff BJonti - I think what PiH is saying is: if B2L was banned then there would surely be a dearth of privately rented properties and those not entitled to social housing would find it extremely difficult or impossible to rent one.


You might be right and It is a good point but then those same people would find plenty more houses to buy would be available which is what many of them want to.

I know folk who can afford, what to me, are incredibly high rents but cannot afford to buy a house because they simply don't have enough money for the deposit. The irony is the amount they would pay per month for the mortgage is less than the rental figure!]]>