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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014
     
    So I need to buy a new battery drill and driver as I'm starting my new build soon. So which ate the best and why, any recommendations?
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014 edited
     
    Hard to beat the Makita and Dewalt tools. I would definitely go with the 18V systems as there are so many other bare tools you could add in due course. A combination pack of impact driver and drill would cover most work.
  1.  
    Recently got a Makita for £100 from Tradepoint with 2 x Li-ion 1.3 Ah batteries. Seems pretty good, though I did manage to make it smoke on its first use, trying to remove a recalcitrant 150mm screw!
  2.  
    For me battery recharge time is one of the most important considerations. Even with 2 I often find myself with both of them flat. I want a maximum recharge time of 10-15 mins, not 1h of waiting around.
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014
     
    Posted By: bot de pailleFor me battery recharge time is one of the most important considerations. Even with 2 I often find myself with both of them flat. I want a maximum recharge time of 10-15 mins, not 1h of waiting around.


    I would say this depends on the Ah rating of them. I find my 4Ah 18V batteries can do most jobs for an hour.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014
     
    For practicality I like Panasonic, I recently used a 14.4v drill/driver and found it more than powerful enough. It's light to handle and the slim conical chuck allows better access into tight spaces. The matching impact wrench is v. good too. Admittedly they are not cheap but they are good, and their battery technology has a good reputation.
    In the past I've had Festo, Bosch, Makita, De Walt, you name it and the batteries always fail and in the case of De Walt I don't like their chucks, they don't seem to allow fast changing of bits without the bit becoming caught between the chuck jaws, a design fault IMO. I'm currently looking at a 12v Li-ion Triton as a small lightweight alternative, you don't always need those huge great lumps esp. when working in awkward spots.
  3.  
    Yup, the battery recharge time depends entirely on the Ah rating.
  4.  
    Also verify that the chuck opens to a decent size, some only go up to 8 or 10mm which limits what you can put it it without an adaptor.
  5.  
    Think of your whole system, and the tools you will be buying over the next decade. Sharing spare batteries and chargers can save you a lot of money.

    I'm currently standardised on Metabo, since I inherited a lot of tools from a small family construction business, and they last almost forever, but cost significantly more than the likes of Makita/Dewalt. I'd also say Metabo are usually ahead technically. We started with them because of eg 10 minute part quick charge and high-torque slow start being available decades ago. Not sure if that matters now.

    There is perhaps more to be gained by standardising than by special offers.

    If you care about tool miles, I think that both Makita and Dewalt manufacture in the UK.

    Ferdinand
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014
     
    Posted By: ferdinand2000If you care about tool miles, I think that both Makita and Dewalt manufacture in the UK.
    I'd rather buy locally manufactured where possible.

    So being a bit careful with money, where are the best deals to be had currently?

    Also I want a system where spare batteries are available at a reasonable price, I've already been stung by one manufacturer whose replacement batteries are about 3/4 of the price of new drill and that won't be happening again!!
  6.  
    ''Also I want a system where spare batteries are available at a reasonable price, I've already been stung by one manufacturer whose replacement batteries are about 3/4 of the price of new drill and that won't be happening again!!''

    I think that usually does happen, doesn't it? I was warned against non-OE replacement batteries, so I think new batteries for my Ryobi would have cost about 2/3 of the original package price. I have just given up on that one, because of its inability to hold charge, hence the new Makita.
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014
     
    Price of replacement batteries is my reason for running Dewalt. Lots of good machines out there but I have found Dewalt's batteries consistently cheaper over the years. Sadly neither of my two are made in the UK. Drill is made in the Czech Republic and the impact driver is from PRC. Makita definitely used to manufacture in the UK but I thought they had now moved it abroad.
  7.  
    My further comments:

    I'd honestly go for 2 drills (drill and screw) but you are probably doing that.

    Should have said, of course, that Metabo are manufactured in Germany.

    For single tools Toolstation or Screwfix deals seem to be good prices. I bought a De Walt 18W drill at SF there for particular job, which quite happily (slowly!) drilled 18mm holes through 9" solid brick.

    I'd say draw up your full list of battery tools in the longer term (and it seems really blurred now what uses batteries), and visit an official outlet to play with them. Battery power now does a lot more - Makita seem to have circular saws, big drills, screw guns, dust extractors and also stuff like lights and radios from the same batteries (I think).

    But what about reciprocating saws, strimmers and hedge trimmers? Can they share too?

    Could you cut a deal for several - 5-6 tools, four batteries, two chargers, and 20% off (or a free router) please Guvnor. Would it work now at the end of the year? Would SO allow it?

    They do sell them "naked", like camera bodies.

    Ferdinand
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014 edited
     
    How about something like this. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dewalt-Lithium-Ion-Impact-Driver-Batteries/dp/B008LAG2GC
    Same impact driver I use now that is just as happy putting in plasterboard screws as m10 x m200 coach screws. I had the previous version of the drill during our house build and it drilled 20mm holes through an RSJ. I did feel a bit sorry for it though.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014
     
    Posted By: TriassicI've already been stung by one manufacturer whose replacement batteries are about 3/4 of the price of new drill and that won't be happening again!!
    I find this really annoying, I now have 2 drills and a driver, all in very good condition, with duff batteries. I really would like to send them back to Herr Bosch personally and him about the foolishness of pricing his replacement batteries so highly, to the point that I won't be buying his products again.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014
     
    I'd decide on the budget and look for a package that comes with extra battery packs. Check that they are decent capacity. No point in buying a set with two small ones if they are half the capacity or a cheaper unit with a single larger pack.

    Definitly Li. They are better for DIY use than NiMh or NiCad (if you can still get those). Li cells hold their charge well so if you have a gap of a few weeks between use you are more likely to find there is still useful charge in the pack from last time.

    If it's going to be dual use (drill and screw) it must have two speed settings/ranges/gears in addition to the trigger operated speed control.

    I actually still use the cheap Ryobi I8V Li 2600mAH that I got years ago from screwfix on an offer. Not without it's faults but nothing major and 6 years old now.
    • CommentAuthornigelm
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014
     
    I have been through a few makes now, usually discarded when the batteries won't hold charge anymore, usually buying new batteries doesn't make economic sense.

    Got Makita 14v stuff now and have been very impressed. The impact driver is brushless with selectable power levels (important feature if you want to put in smaller screws), battery life is good and have not found a screw it won't drive yet.
    • CommentAuthorCerisy
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014
     
    When we were about to start our self build I did a similar exercise (with good advice from GBF) and went for the Makita two unit set - driver and drill, 18v LXT 3Ah with two batteries. Been very impressed with both units - driven 1000's of screws as we finished the exterior and moved inside. No problems with jus having two batteries.

    Doing a full search I ended up buying from powertoolworld.co.uk - cheap than Screwfix, Amazon, etc. While I have used Screwfix for smaller items, they certainly aren't that cheap! The only issue I've had is finding the impact bits for the driver - I buy them whenever I see them!!
    • CommentAuthorfinny
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014
     
    After years of wristache with heavy makita kit, I was relieved when the last batteries gave up and freed me up to change. Now on my 2nd Bosch pro Li ion 10.6v driver. Does 95% of what the old makita 18v did and at about a third of the weight and far quicker recharge. Cost next to nothing to buy and replace body only or new batteries ( I am still on the original batteries 4 years in)
    Absolute no brainer for me..
  8.  
    How rich are you feeling?

    There's a set of 6 battery tools from Screwfix, which looks OK if you able to go for it:

    3x4AH batteries, charger, drill, impact driver, jigsaw, angle grinder, circular saw, site light, in nice kit boxes.

    It costs ... er ... £779.99.
    http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-dck692m3-18v-4ah-li-ion-cordless-6-piece-kit/92287

    There's another one with a slightly cheaper rill for £750.

    And one from Makita with a hanging light and a recip saw not a circular saw at £779.99, with 3ah batteries, and with a kit bag not boxes.
    http://www.screwfix.com/p/makita-dlx6000-18v-3ah-li-ion-cordless-6-piece-kit-lxt/93978

    Haven't worked out the breakdown, but the separate prices are £1000-£1200 on the first one.

    Batteries might be heavy.

    Ferdinand
    • CommentAuthorwindy lamb
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014
     
    Get which ever one they have in Aldi. I bought one, used it every day for six months whereby the battery wouldn't hold its charge anymore. Took it back and they refunded me.
    I bought a Bosh for 3 times the money, it's been back twice and still only works for about 10 mins before needing to charge = rubbish. I'm off the Aldi!:bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorSimon Still
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: Triassic
    Posted By: TriassicI've already been stung by one manufacturer whose replacement batteries are about 3/4 of the price of new drill and that won't be happening again!!
    I find this really annoying, I now have 2 drills and a driver, all in very good condition, with duff batteries. I really would like to send them back to Herr Bosch personally and him about the foolishness of pricing his replacement batteries so highly, to the point that I won't be buying his products again.


    Really no point getting angry about it - the fact is that good, high capacity, batteries are still expensive. You can buy all the Makita stuff separately from a few retailers (and on eBay) and the reality is an 18V drill bodies start about £50 and the cheapest you can pick up a single battery for is about £60. If you're buying a cheaper brand of drill you're paying less for the body so the balance changes but the manufacturer has the same input cost for Li-Ion cells as Makita.

    There are cheaper unbranded batteries but my experience of them both for Makita drills and for laptops is that they last a lot less time than the genuine ones - ie the real thing is more expensive but cheaper in the long run.

    If you're buying Makita then there are often packages with 3 batteries and a drill bodies that can work out cheapest overall. Well worth having 1 more battery than you've got bodies so that you've always got a spare fully charged. Not all the 18v drills are the same - our new 18v Li Ion Makita isn't as powerful as the 10 year old NiMH powered one it replaced. We'll almost certainly buy one or more extra bodies when we start the build (in the next few weeks - last week of work just starting)

    The 10.8V Makita two packs (drill and impact driver) are not that expensive and really handy for wood work - drill for pilot hole, impact driver for screws, light in the hand and get into tight spaces. In the last 18 months since we bought them they've had a lot more use than the 18v (but we've not been doing any serious jobs).
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014 edited
     
    I've got the full Makita 18V li-ion range
    5 ish drills, 2 heavy , 3 light ( use as drivers) , 3 saws , grinder, plane , lamps, radio , vacuum !

    Had them since they come out (4-5 ish years), gone through about 8 ish batteries but always have 5 on the go , 3 chargers.
    Good, light, powerful tools but they do wear out.
    I buy them 'bare' from internet seller and get 2ish new batteries per year.
    Gone through one circular saw , and 2 drill out so far , and my 4" grinder just burnt out , plus one in bits in a box in my cupboard for the last year.
    A note of caution don't take the gear box apart then leave for a month without taking a photo first
  9.  
    My final comments:

    1 - Given that you are building a new house, the cost saving on any tools is going to be small compared to wasted time when the cheap ones break, or the jobs they aren't up to doing. A £12.99 jobbie from Aldi probably can't drive 6" screws without pilot drilling.

    2 - Have you got power on site? If not, that might argue for the larger batteries and lots of them.

    3 - Is there a separate conversation to have about cheap or not cheap screws for time saved? I've switched to a dfferent type and I have been amazed at the difference.

    Ferdinand
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2014 edited
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: bot de paille</cite>Yup, the battery recharge time depends entirely on the Ah rating.</blockquote>

    I don't have much to add to the general recommendations, but the above is not quite correct.

    Batteries have 'C' ratings. So a battery may have a 2C charge rate and a 40C discharge rate. The C relates to the Ah rating of the battery. So if that is a 2Ah battery, it can be charged at 4amps (taking 30 mins to charge) and discharged at a rate of up to 80amps.

    Therefore it is more about the spec of the battery, the output of the charger, but more importantly than that, what the manufacturer has deemed to be an adequate specification based on intended use.

    Charging batteries at more than 1C can shorten their life a bit, so most manufacturers will stick to a 1C charge rate to get the best compromise in charge time and battery longevity.
  10.  
    Posted By: jamesingramI've got the full Makita 18V li-ion range
    lamps, radio , vacuum !



    What are these like? Since most of the cost is in the batteries and charger these are cheap body only. I noticed the vac earlier tonight and it's £35 or so. Is it any good?
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2014
     
    Can anyone explain the reason for the various battery voltages and which voltage I should be going for?
  11.  
    Higher voltage = more power/torque (though the motor makes a difference as well - not all drills of the same voltage are equal). Disadvantage - heavier and more expensive.

    18v for heavy building tasks - large holes/hard materials. 10.8 ideal for interior stuff like kitchen fitting.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2014 edited
     
    Yes vacs quite good for little clear up jobs. I stick it under the drill whilst drilling. Lamp and torches good also. Radios abit over priced. I just use my new smart phone with bluetooth speaker. Welcome to the world of internet radio and spotifi:bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2014
     
    Years ago I bought a set of Erbauer drill drivers from screwfix, yes I know they are fairly cheap and no spares available but they have been great, two years warranty (one year for the battery) so if I work them hard they break and get replaced by screwfix under warranty. Also if they get nicked from site they are cheaper to replace.
   
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