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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorGarethC
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2016
     
    How could you do this?

    Am I right that you'd just need a shed of a reasonable size with an A2A heat pump installed. Would need to work out the heating needs of the shed, and probably insulate a wee bit to make it sensible.

    Would you need to heat using an electric heater to confirm the heating needs empirically?

    Internal target temp set to 20 degrees for between say 8am and 10pm. Monitor to track electric usage.

    Wouldn't even need a whole year of data to be useful. Would even be good just to have a bit of data to see how humid/wet days affect it, and what happens in the external temperature zone of between zero and 7, where funny things MAY happen.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2016
     
    I think it has already been done and remarkably they perform well, much closer in CoP terms to ground source heat pumps than theory would suggest.

    Freezing up of the outdoor box does happen but rarely. better to spend time looking for the already done research,

    Note also that a lot are in use and there is not much of a row going on about them either being expensive or having problems. (I reckon rich people have them and they can afford and want to be warm and cant compare or find info)
  1.  
    Why reinvent the wheel? A2A heatpumps are in common use in many places, including "difficult" climates like Canada's. There is already a lot of performance data for these. We have climatic regions in Canada similar to the UK (British Columbia, for example).

    http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/publications/efficiency/heating-heat-pump/6831

    http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/sites/oee.nrcan.gc.ca/files/pdf/publications/infosource/pub/home/heating-heat-pump/booklet.pdf

    https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/inpr/su/sufepr/sufepr_001.cfm

    http://www.ductless.ca/ac/lg.html

    https://www.buildinggreen.com/blog/7-tips-get-more-mini-split-heat-pumps-colder-climates

    Paul in Montreal.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2016
     
    I think a lot of HPs have loggers built in that can give a pretty good picture of what is happening.

    Failing that, a heat meter, an electricity meter, some temperature and RH loggers and a few hours of analysis.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2016
     
    How could you do this?


    COP = Power out/Power in

    Power in is the electrical power. Not hard to measure.
    Power out is the thermal power in the hot air... for that you need to know the air flow rate and the temperature increase.

    I think that's is probably all you need. Don't see why you need insulated sheds etc.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2016
     
    You need to know the heat lost from the hot air, this is very hard unless you have a very well insulated and sealed box.
  2.  
    Posted By: ringiYou need to know the heat lost from the hot air, this is very hard unless you have a very well insulated and sealed box.


    It's not hard to do. Just measure the temperature of the air as close to the outlet as possible. If you know the supply and return temperatures, as well as the air flow, then you can get the output power pretty accurately. Measuring the flow rate might be a challenge, though.

    Paul in Montreal.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2016
     
    You are assuming the air comes out at a constant temperature, it may be a different temperature at different places in the output.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2016
     
    μt = (t2 - t1) / (t3 - t1)

    where

    μt = temperature transfer efficiency

    t1 = temperature in outside make-up air before the heat exchanger (oC)

    t2 = temperature in outside make-up air after the heat exchanger (oC)

    t3 = temperature in outlet air before the heat exchanger (oC)
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2016
     
    Steamy, the conversation's about A2A HPs, not MVHR.
  3.  
    Posted By: ringiYou are assuming the air comes out at a constant temperature, it may be a different temperature at different places in the output.


    True - I measured mine at the closest duct to the heatpump, calibrated with the 10kW auxiliary heater so I could calculate the effective flow rate and then use that to determine the heat pump output. I'm sure it's accurate to about +/- 5%.

    Paul in Montreal.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2016
     
    The formula is not so different really. Just depends what you want to class as input and output temperatures.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2016
     
    You got a duct that makes it easier, the A2A units in the UK have a long slot the air comes out of directly into the room.
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