Green Building Forum - Window firms going bust Tue, 19 Dec 2023 04:05:00 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304079#Comment_304079 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304079#Comment_304079 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 08:49:15 +0000 borpin
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66987799

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-67267093]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304081#Comment_304081 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304081#Comment_304081 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:23:37 +0000 Artiglio
Facebook has plenty of trades looking for work
Scaffolder i use has reduced from 3 gangs to 2 ,unless enquiries and work won picks up he’ll be down to 1 in the new year.
My electrician is no longer answering customer enquiries in the evening, the 3/4 he used to get per day is now that many a week if he’s lucky, so answers every call as it comes in.
Small builders that had 6 months plus work in their books are scratching for work after next spring.
Those that took bounce back loans are not quite as cock sure now that they need repaying. Many of those shiny new builders vans have turned into albatrosses with the finance payments.

Firms that were basically just surviving on the back of historically low interest rates and associated free money and whose customers were spending similarly cheap money are going to struggle. The likes of the window industry are especially hard hit with increases in glass and plastic price increases.

There are tough times on the horizon and if we don’t get a mild winter like last years, many households are going to have budgets severely constrained. Last and by now ways least the decision to not increase tax free allowances is going to bit especially hard in a higher interest rate and inflation environment.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304084#Comment_304084 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304084#Comment_304084 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:41:43 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary
Over here at least in the last couple of years the various building trades could ask what they like and even then you were waiting 6+ months - now with a bit of a turn down in part due to the rampant increase in the price of materials and the rest due to labour charges prices are coming down a bit.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304086#Comment_304086 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304086#Comment_304086 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 11:30:47 +0000 Artiglio Then you have the distortions of in work benefits, i had tenants where one partner worked part time , couple of young kids and total income for 25 hpurs work a week was the equivalent of £42k pre tax a year.
So a 30 year old decent tradesman supplying tools and running a van if they have partner, kids , mortgage etc will be looking to charge £300 a day to make ends meet and they’ll not have much leeway in that. Really they want nearer £400.
The country has got totally out of kilter with the cost of living , tax and the value of skills. The recent run of stories in the press regarding shoplifting are in many areas not news, my local CO-OP has endless issues with theft, the day that doesn’t have a blatant theft is the rare exception. Be a ne’er do well reliant on be:efits and you can nick pretty much what you want and be unlikely to get caught so long as there is no violence.
Not forgetting the tax burden which is considerable, as a landlord i’m subject to Sec24 which effectively charges me tax on a portion of the interest payments i make, i’m not prepared to cover that cost, so it falls on my tenants, but to have enough after tax on the extra income to cover the tax on what is effectively turnover not profit means theyare all getting rent increases of £50 a month. Which benefits no one other than the exchequer.
There’s an almighty reckoning marching our way, with what is likely to be a change of government it’ll get worse in terms of taxation when labour seek to level everyone down. Lots of firms are going to go to the wall.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304089#Comment_304089 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304089#Comment_304089 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 13:41:26 +0000 fostertom Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304091#Comment_304091 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304091#Comment_304091 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 14:02:03 +0000 Artiglio The welsh have bought in rules around 2nd homes , that mean they need to be let enough days a year to contribute to the community or you pay more council tax, which is perfectly sensible when it’s framed around the “wealthy outsider” outbidding locals for homes that are then occupied just a few months a year. But I have a relation in their 80’s whose fallen foul of the regulations because they’ve run a small holiday business from their own home , which has been their only home for nearly 40 years, and is now being charged over 10k a year in council tax, so must leave the home that represents 140 years of work over the lifetime of their and theit late partners lives, throw in the cost of selling and buying elsewhere and that’s a significant chunk of a lifetimes work. Try and get any of the politicians involved to explain why this is seen as reasonable, the silence is deafening but it plays to the less informed masses.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304095#Comment_304095 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304095#Comment_304095 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 17:23:05 +0000 revor Posted By: Artiglioand is now being charged over 10k a year in council tax,

I live in Wales and have neighbours with holiday property and they do very nicely thank you so I struggle to understand how your relative's business commands such a high council tax what sort of business is it?, are there no alternatives/ stop the holiday business franchise it to someone else. A number of glamping pod businesses have over the years started up in my area and continue to do where they can get planning permission if it was not profitable they would not do it. A close neighbour is converting an outbuilding in his garden to make a holiday let so it must be profitable he certainly thinks it will be. The holiday property/ second homes is a conundrum and the government is in a double bind over it. Damned if they do damned if they don't.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304096#Comment_304096 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304096#Comment_304096 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 17:33:44 +0000 Jeff B
As a pensioner I am conscious that my main income, the state pension, is provided by an ever shrinking number of tax payers, especially with the likelihood of the triple lock continuing in the future. Conversely I have worked all my life and paid into the tax/NI system so I have to admit there is even an element of entitlement in my thinking now!]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304097#Comment_304097 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304097#Comment_304097 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 17:38:00 +0000 Jeff B
Surely there must be a distinction between having a second home and having a static caravan or annex on the same property where you live permanently?]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304098#Comment_304098 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304098#Comment_304098 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 18:40:58 +0000 fostertom Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304099#Comment_304099 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304099#Comment_304099 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 20:14:55 +0000 djh Posted By: fostertomIf only there were enough good (note, *good*) jobs in a modern, automating economy, to employ every one of those 'Entitled'.There never is, nor can be. But at the moment unemployment is pretty low, so there are more jobs than people want them. Agriculture, health service et al are still running using foreign workers.

If you have evidence linking automation specifically to current problems, by all means link to it.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304100#Comment_304100 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304100#Comment_304100 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 20:23:41 +0000 Artiglio There’s a section of society that has no interest in work, stuck in a generational cycle of welfare dependence and no intention of escaping it. I’ve found a baby in a cardboard box that was saturated with urine, the mother had complained that the radiator the baby was next to was leaking, it wasn’t ,the leak was the baby.The mother did’nt even get off the sofa. A child brothel run by eastern europeans ( not that it matters) just up from where i lived was raided and shut down, but no prosecutions , the children went into care and those running it allowed to leave the country. The reason for not prosecuting or publicising what had been going on , to prevent stigmatisation of immigrant communities ( so nationality does matter). Those that live on cannabis and energy drinks, more interested in getting their kids diagnosed with an issue for the extra payments and if they’re really lucky a motability car.
There are plenty of jobs out there otherwise why do we need so many migrant workers. Educational attainment is the big problem, but education not seen as an issue by sections of the community. A local primary school has welfare officers knocking on doors looking for pupils and finding no one in the house is out of bed. The school has found fining parents is the best way to improve attendance. The list is endless.
You may not like my views but there’s reason behind them.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304101#Comment_304101 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304101#Comment_304101 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 20:43:31 +0000 Artiglio They were part of the community and well liked. The legislation bought in was done so to counter those out bidding locals on homes that then sat empty for most of the year, there was no mention of those who rented out part of their own home. With the passing of one of the couple the other continued to offer the accomodation to enable themselves to live in a home that represented their lives work, choosing to work into their late seventies to enjoy the home they’d created. Under the new rules to count as a business in the eyes of the welsh government they need to let for 182 nights a year which in rural wales is not easy to achieve. Quite why is the state able to choose how someone uses their home and how hard you have to work in your later years? The annexe is linked to the home , via it’s heating , water, electricity ,has a door between them, shares a drive , to turn it into a truly separate dwelling would be incredibly expensive and ruin the property as a whole. Apparently the case is seen as collateral damage and there’s no intention of altering the legislation, so it’s a case of work themselves into the grave or sell up and move. Being unable to afford to live there with the council tax charges ,move they must. At which point is your home not your home?]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304102#Comment_304102 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304102#Comment_304102 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 20:54:23 +0000 Artiglio Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304103#Comment_304103 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304103#Comment_304103 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 21:08:49 +0000 Artiglio
Many companies have issues with employess not wanting to do more hours because it messes up their tax credits, so they need to use very expensive agency labour. Some of those not wanting extra hours only do 16 hours a week. The costs associated with having all the extra employees on the payroll are not insignificant. Of course such a system gives us the notional low unemployment rate you mention.
So we bring in migrant labour to fill the vacancies, but they need housing and public services as well , so we end up trying to provide for far more people than the overall economy would really need if 37.5 hours were the norm.
Obviously much more complex , but it’s what underlies our poor per capita productivity numbers.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304104#Comment_304104 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304104#Comment_304104 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 21:15:41 +0000 Artiglio Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304105#Comment_304105 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304105#Comment_304105 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 22:14:11 +0000 borpin )]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304108#Comment_304108 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304108#Comment_304108 Wed, 01 Nov 2023 00:05:50 +0000 Mike1 Posted By: ArtiglioThere are lots of theories and suggestions as to what can be done, all require financing, which in an economy that isn’t growing on the all important per capita basis means the money will most likely be borrowed.Or more could be raised in tax - the UK is still a relatively low-taxed country. To quote from the OBS (https://obr.uk/box/the-uks-tax-burden-in-historical-and-international-context/):
"...the UK tax burden...has remained below the average across other advanced economies. In 2021...the UK’s tax-to-GDP ratio was 33.5% of GDP... 3.3% of GDP below the average of other G7 economies, and 6.4% of GDP below the average of 14 other western European countries."

That doesn't have to mean taxing 'ordinary people' more. Until recently income from corporate taxes has fallen pretty continually since the 1980s, at least in part due to cuts in corporate tax rates as part of the international race to the bottom.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304111#Comment_304111 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304111#Comment_304111 Wed, 01 Nov 2023 06:37:05 +0000 Dominic Cooney Especially as it’s connected to the main house. Have they even explored this option? The planning system can help sometimes because there is more flexibility to resolve specific problems like this.
Or seek professional advice.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304113#Comment_304113 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304113#Comment_304113 Wed, 01 Nov 2023 07:32:18 +0000 kristeva
Of course none of this has anything to do with the fact these people tend to vote Labour. FWIW I'd like nothing more than to see the Tories crushed into the ground, but unfortunately the alternative is equally depressing.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304114#Comment_304114 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304114#Comment_304114 Wed, 01 Nov 2023 07:55:51 +0000 chrisinbrighton My own anecdote about the Welsh council tax for second homes is that I know two people that are getting divorced so they can can prove to the Welsh council that they live apart...its wierd the unintended concequences of decisions.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304115#Comment_304115 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304115#Comment_304115 Wed, 01 Nov 2023 08:08:07 +0000 fostertom Posted By: djhIf you have evidence linking automation specifically to current problemsYes indeed - in The Archers, always up with the latest - they're contemplating agricultural robots and expecting that even the very few remaining farmers and contractors who presently run farms will no longer be needed to drive around on huge tractors.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304117#Comment_304117 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304117#Comment_304117 Wed, 01 Nov 2023 11:08:06 +0000 owlman Posted By: fostertom
Posted By: djhIf you have evidence linking automation specifically to current problems
Yes indeed - in The Archers, always up with the latest - they're contemplating agricultural robots and expecting that even the very few remaining farmers and contractors who presently run farms will no longer be needed to drive around on huge tractors.



Someone, a human, will still be needed to drive the thing to the field, to service it, to recover it when it gets stuck in the mud, to collect the produce and store it, etc etc. Jobs change, "Gerald - Clarkson's Farm", will become the robot oversee-er, and when the new robot becomes the robot oversee-er, Gerald will be the new robot dismantler and steampunk artist. :bigsmile::wink:]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304126#Comment_304126 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304126#Comment_304126 Wed, 01 Nov 2023 14:15:30 +0000 fostertom Posted By: owlmansteampunk artistNow you're talkin' - when work isn't confused with making a crust (let robots do that, and work out how to then distribute said crusts without self-satisfied wallowing in who does and who doesn't 'deserve' any) but for fun and fulfilment.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304152#Comment_304152 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304152#Comment_304152 Fri, 03 Nov 2023 13:42:50 +0000 revor
https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/financial/construction-tops-financial-distress-index-31-10-2023/

I had a delivery this morning from a major Builders Merchant and asked the driver if he they were busy.( I was an early drop and his waggon was half full) He replied that they were very slack business had dropped off considerably, "just ticking over."]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304154#Comment_304154 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304154#Comment_304154 Fri, 03 Nov 2023 14:56:00 +0000 fostertom a) to look at any scheme that comes with working drawings/spec (smells like complication)
b) to look at anything where they suspect they'll be in competition
c) to work out a binding tender price (they've let that capability lapse)
d) to sign any binding contract
e) to understand/work to drawings once on site (they've lost that skill)
there was a brief window about this time last year, when there was talk of a recession, and suddenly they were worried to fill their forward order book so were up for anything, as a) and b) above.

That anxiety evaporated after a few months (so never tested their willingness to c), d) and e)) and it was back to normal - more work offers than they could handle therefore take the ones with least control over piling on the extras, for least demanding (read shoddy) work.

Now maybe they're anxious again?

Good.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304157#Comment_304157 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304157#Comment_304157 Fri, 03 Nov 2023 16:02:44 +0000 djh Posted By: revorThis article in Construction News has an alarming prediction of thousands of construction firms on the brink of bankruptcy.As many people have pointed out over recent years, there are many, many 'zombie' companies who should have gone broke but have been kept in business by excessively cheap credit for years. Construction companies are just some of them. Capitalism at work.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304163#Comment_304163 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304163#Comment_304163 Fri, 03 Nov 2023 21:18:01 +0000 Mike1 Posted By: fostertomAfter recent years finding it increasingly, now almost completely, impossible to find small to medium builders...
...That anxiety evaporated after a few months and it was back to normal
...Now maybe they're anxious again?
Many of us will no doubt be pleased if this results in some long-term stability at affordable prices. However it's perhaps more likely to be yet another cycle of boom and bust in an industry that is notoriously unstable - and consequently unattractive for anyone considering it as a career option.]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304166#Comment_304166 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304166#Comment_304166 Sat, 04 Nov 2023 09:57:40 +0000 fostertom Posted By: Mike1consequently unattractive for anyone considering it as a career optionand the effect of that is that really, almost all, of the experienced old hands have quit, never to return. The common character of their replacements, as small and even many mid-size builder-bosses now, is a skill in eyeing up the client with a view to extracting the whole of their available cash (i.e. stated budget plus the secret reserve).]]> Window firms going bust http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304177#Comment_304177 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18008&Focus=304177#Comment_304177 Mon, 06 Nov 2023 17:15:08 +0000 revor Posted By: ArtiglioBeing unable to afford to live there with the council tax charges ,move they must. At which point is your home not your home?

This is not a happy scenario and cannot help but think that there is a better solution. Having an annexe is a real bonus if one needs a live in carer. Is there no scope to make the house one unit and have a lodger there are tax advantages having a lodger if that is still the case. I cant help but think there is a massive mistake somewhere with the council tax unless it is a very very big premises.]]>