Green Building Forum - Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? Tue, 19 Dec 2023 04:04:20 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303131#Comment_303131 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303131#Comment_303131 Tue, 05 Sep 2023 18:05:05 +0100 jon
Not a lot to the certification side (DNO, Build Regs, Elec certs and so on). I doubt we'll recover the cost (£250) as next stage is the battery. But signed up anyway as being non-MCS but paid export might make a second 'winter array' a worthwhile thing to do (too unique/niche to interest most installers).]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303135#Comment_303135 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303135#Comment_303135 Tue, 05 Sep 2023 19:54:33 +0100 philedge
I've got the Octopus invite to join the trial but with their £250 fee, BC fee and electricians fee, I'm not sure it's going to be worth it]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303136#Comment_303136 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303136#Comment_303136 Tue, 05 Sep 2023 20:10:41 +0100 jon
a) Building control approval for the electrical works (more or less the same thing as the safety cert) so BC don't approve the electrical load (but if you mean structural see below)
b) Elec Cert
c) Then DNO & approval email plus number for export
d) Then max export (kW) figures

Outbuilding set away from boundary so Part A / B not applicable (not that anyone seems to bother under MCS: I even had an installer tell me that MCS makes him a competent person to self certify structural works). However, structural was checked by a Chartered structural engineer (ie me)

Other than that: all there was to it. We couldn't do MCS because it's a prototype from a Structural point of view and standard installers wouldn't want to touch it (we can safely remove individual panels in less than 10 minutes without needing scaffold and there's a few other innovations). They might come back with something else but we're seriously well documented so don't forsee an issue.]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303137#Comment_303137 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303137#Comment_303137 Tue, 05 Sep 2023 20:24:56 +0100 philedge Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303139#Comment_303139 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303139#Comment_303139 Tue, 05 Sep 2023 20:40:53 +0100 djh Posted By: jonWe couldn't do MCS because it's a prototype from a Structural point of view and standard installers wouldn't want to touch it (we can safely remove individual panels in less than 10 minutes without needing scaffold and there's a few other innovations). They might come back with something else but we're seriously well documented so don't forsee an issue.I'd be interested in the details if you're willing to share. Just for interest at this stage.

BTW, I am supplied by Coop Energy/Octopus and I have a PV system and haven't received an invite. Is that normal. The PV system is registered with Good Energy so that may account for it.]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303140#Comment_303140 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303140#Comment_303140 Tue, 05 Sep 2023 21:15:25 +0100 philedge Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303145#Comment_303145 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303145#Comment_303145 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 10:01:45 +0100 jon Posted By: philedgeThanks for clarifying. It was the additional structural load that I think Octopus want to see the BC approval for.

Could well be. The Part A/B compliance side is a bit unclear. It'll probably get highlighted by one particular publication in the coming months, so imagine that things will get clearer after that.]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303149#Comment_303149 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303149#Comment_303149 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 10:14:06 +0100 jon Posted By: djhI'd be interested in the details if you're willing to share. Just for interest at this stage.

Will have to do a 'thread' about it. Nothing particularly confidential: more a case of doing it to show that it can be done (so quite small scale). The aim was to showcase how to achieve:

1) Highest possible electrical safety
2) Lowest possible fire risk
3) Increased durability of the existing roof under
4) The look of an in-roof system
5) As good performance as standard on-roof solar
6) Slid-in/slide out panels for access
7) All maintainable without scaffold

no 4 Might particularly interest Tom if he's still here

It worked well but I probably over-designed some aspects to be certain that there would be no issue. There's also one or two 'tweaks' that I would, in retrospect, do differently. I'm planning to do a write-up when we're complete.]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303151#Comment_303151 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303151#Comment_303151 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 11:57:46 +0100 djh Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303163#Comment_303163 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303163#Comment_303163 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 13:03:57 +0100 borpin Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303167#Comment_303167 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303167#Comment_303167 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 16:51:28 +0100 jon Posted By: djhI look forward to seeing the write-up when you're ready. The brackets and the scaffold free maintenance seem like the most interesting aspects to me.

Will do. Scaff free might be trickier if two storey (but still feasible)


Posted By: borpinI'd think about a ground mounted system.


limit to 9sqm under PD, together with the other rules, tend to work against it. It's a curious quirk of PD rules that you can build 30sqm, tile it with solar and then claim it's a different class of build under PD (though I'm not sure if anyone's actually tried that)]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303172#Comment_303172 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303172#Comment_303172 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 21:03:51 +0100 Dominic Cooney Posted By: jonI'm not sure if anyone's actually tried that

I don't see why that wouldn't work, as long as all the other criteria to comply with Class E (outbuildings) applied to the structure.
A Log, bike or bin store springs to mind, it might avoid the need for any walls.]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303174#Comment_303174 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303174#Comment_303174 Thu, 07 Sep 2023 09:02:35 +0100 djh Posted By: Dominic CooneyA Log, bike or bin store springs to mind, it might avoid the need for any walls.A 30 m² bin store.My mind is boggled!]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303175#Comment_303175 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303175#Comment_303175 Thu, 07 Sep 2023 22:11:03 +0100 Dominic Cooney
Or it could be a yoga suite, home gym, dog kennel, rain-proof clothes drying area, car port, pizza oven / outdoor food area, electric scooter or mobility scooter charging area, garden produce storage area, roofed-over hot tub (AKA chlamydia pool)

Basically anything that is ancillary to the use of the dwellinghouse.]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303179#Comment_303179 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303179#Comment_303179 Fri, 08 Sep 2023 15:08:52 +0100 jon Posted By: Dominic CooneyBasically anything that is ancillary to the use of the dwellinghouse

Haha: yes. And the cost of the structure & substructure can be reduced a lot if your structure is triangulated. If you can make an E-W arrangement work, the inverter (or inverters) can then use both sides of the array with combined feeds (the max power point tracking is almost identical if your array is identical both sides and facing exactly east and west).

That's part of the reason for the thin band of panels in the above that you can see nearest to the camera. That's a 4 panel arrangement: 2 east in series (in the shot) with 2 west, also with wiring in series (out of shot), and then joined in parallel to a single micro-inverter. I wanted to see how it performed in practice.]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303415#Comment_303415 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303415#Comment_303415 Tue, 19 Sep 2023 17:45:42 +0100 jon Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303448#Comment_303448 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=303448#Comment_303448 Wed, 20 Sep 2023 20:17:10 +0100 jamesingram Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=304261#Comment_304261 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=304261#Comment_304261 Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:39:38 +0000 jon
I've added my maintenance file for this one as an attachment. Not a full write up (eg no lessons learned) but gives an idea. It's quite expensive to do it this way so suspect it'd only have a fairly niche market. But it helps to protect an existing felt roof and makes it more maintainable (idea being to extend the usable life of the felt so that it matches, or exceeds, that of the solar panels themselves)

Also disclaimer: very important for anyone who's not in construction reading this. I've not covered everything someone would need to know so it's just a general idea of how to do about it sort of thing. The details are very important (eg using neoprene washers in places, fix details, how the batten fixes were done, lightning protection, edge trimming etc). You must have a qualified electrician to do a part of this type of install.]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=304265#Comment_304265 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=304265#Comment_304265 Wed, 15 Nov 2023 20:19:10 +0000 djh ]]> Anyone else on Octopus non-MCS trial? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=304273#Comment_304273 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17942&Focus=304273#Comment_304273 Thu, 16 Nov 2023 11:39:55 +0000 jon
The neighbourhood seems to like it. The general view seems to be that it looks better with the solar panels than it did without them. I think that's because the panels cover the entire roof.

A few of the details were done so that I could be sure that I complied with the existing letter (back in last decade) from the council confirming compliance of certain allowable dimensions. It's why there's only a small overhang and why the gap at the eaves is so small. Could have been less expensive if it wasn't a backwardly complying retrofit. I would definitely make the overhang more (say 300 to 400mm) if I were doing this without having to worry about compliance: the micro inverters (or whatever) would then become accessible with no effort at all.]]>