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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    Posted By: DandJThis comment is not meant to appear rude, but looking at the condition of the concrete bases I wouldn't tighten the nuts up too much on those brackets!
    It'd be very helpful if you could be more specific.

    I have looked at the webpage you linked to and am surprised the BCO let you get away with some of the misalignment of the brackets on the pads which can be seen in the picture.
    BCO hasn't been on site since the holes were dug but before the concrete was poured. He said his next look will be when the structure's up but before insulation goes in but, yes, I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to get him to have another look before I go too far.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: crosbieYou may also find you need an interim photovoltaic supply at latter stages of construction (prior to installing the main system). And at the end of it, the interim system becomes a back-up, in case the main system goes offline.
    Exactly. What I hope to do is get a watertight and moderately secure structure up then get one string of batteries and a few panels on a temporary mount for when I'm doing the more detailed stuff.

    Like your barn. It's indeed a similar structure - just more cladding round the side and underneath on mine!
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    Posted By: wookeyErm what are you drilling the holes with if you didn't buy an SDS drill? A plain combo/hammer drill? I tested my new, decent (hitachi) combo drill against the 14V SDS Makita. The latter drills holes in concrete _10 times_ faster. The gulf in performace is really quite boggling.
    Yep, having done the first two brackets (the ones I really need done for the timber above) with a combi drill I think I'll get an SDS one for the outer two.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    I suspect that DandJ may be labouring under the assumption that the visible face of the concrete pad is all that exists. From a comment on your page about one plate sitting in concrete but having mud around it, I suspect those visible pads are the tip of the iceberg..

    If you're bothered about galvanising etc, just use a quality rust eating paint like hammerite, possibly overlaid with waxoyl, a rust eating car body sealant.. I've just pulled some 60 year old brackets out of a wall - a thick enamel-like paint and encased entirely in concrete and the steel they're made from is shiny as a new button..

    You're stressing about corrosion of the steel, but don't forget that steel nuts in contact with zinc plate, surrounded by a liquid will set up a galvanic corrosion cell anyway.. You might end up hammeriting every nut a few times if your night worries get the better of you :)
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    PS; you drive home to charge batteries rathe than running a tiny petrol engine for a few minutes to drill a hole?

    And I thought this site was about saving the earth.. ;) ;)
  1.  
    DomJ may be referring to the fact that it looks like there has been no compaction on the concrete and it looks crumbly quite close to the edge of the brackets in some pics - it looks like the concrete was just dropped in the hole rather than formwork being built at exact spacings, tops levelled and pads pokered as one might expect when pouring that many pads. It is quicker and cheaper just pouring into the ground I know. Common when building bigger steel portal buildings, but the pads are a lot larger as well and fewer of them. It would also be less common for them to be above ground level so much in the way Eds are.

    Everyone has different ideas about how to do things and what's appropriate, I think getting your BCO out to check things would be a good idea because if he's happy then it is reassurance you won't be asked to remedy it later on when it could be a real hassle. It won't cost anything for him to come out and confirm if he is happy that all is structurally sound, he won't be concerned with the aesthetics. With that many pads I don't think it is in danger of blowing over in a gale. All I can say however is that any discrepancies at foundation levels will cause problems all the way up if they aren't ironed out.

    SDS battery drill a good idea, shame in a way as its the only concrete in the project. They are MUCH faster at getting through concrete. I know you are a Makita man, but I know Lidl have a £50 SDS battery drill this week, for only a few holes I would be very tempted.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    Thanks Willie - you more or less confirm the way I'm thinking.

    Interesting what you say about the Lidl drill. Still, I can't help feeling that a hefty drill will come in handy at some future point, too, by which time the Lidl drill's battery will probably have died. I was initially put off SDS by the prices I'd seen (around £400) but actually there are what look like perfectly reasonable Makita ones for a lot less:

    Makita DHR202Z 18V Body Only Cordless Li-Ion SDS Plus Rotary Hammer Drill
    £153.37 from Amazon

    Makita DHR242Z 18V 24mm Body Only Cordless Li-Ion SDS Plus Brushless 3-Mode Rotary Hammer Drill
    £180 from Amazon

    Not quite sure what the difference is. For the 242 they say “Unique rubber joint construction suppresses the transmission of vibration to battery terminals, minimizing battery failures” which sounds like a good idea if you're using it a lot but …
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    Posted By: cjardPS; you drive home to charge batteries rathe than running a tiny petrol engine for a few minutes to drill a hole?

    And I thought this site was about saving the earth.. ;) ;)
    Yeah, terrible, I know. It wasn't plan A but there would be the embodied energy in the tiny petrol engine… ;-)
    • CommentAuthorDandJ
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    My comments were made from my stand point as a site engineer who makes a living out of making sure things are built in the right place and at the right level etc. The way the concrete pads were formed above the ground level without shuttering is not the way it would normally be done on site, and some of the bases were not set out centrally to the pad (pad not set out correctly is obviously more to the point). That is why I felt the need to comment.
    My concern in many of these situations is that I know how hard we all work to get our own builds completed and I don't like to see areas where I suspect people may not be getting the best workmanship from their contractors. As willie.macleod says, problems at foundation level are a real pain but something which is often glossed over as it ends up hidden and is not 'sexy'.
    •  
      CommentAuthorcrosbie
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    £300 gets you a £50 Titan TTB278 SDS (I have one), a £90 deep cycle 12V battery, and a £160 5kW inverter. For a bit more, with a 2nd battery, and some cheap chinese panels, you can get a SinusPro 2000S 2kW solar inverter/charger (their 5kW needs 48V).

    The Titan may be heavy at 5Kg, however it's not only good for concrete, but excellent at drilling bolt holes through umpteen inches of wood with SDS auger bits. Normal (single speed) drills tend to get jammed and you have to unscrew the bit from the wood with a wrench. But maybe your design needs no holes in the wood?
    • CommentAuthorDandJ
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    Makita 18V SDS is excellent, I use one not only for normal SDS drilling but also to drive steel rebar pins into the ground for setting out. Saying that though, my 240V cheap Lidl type SDS is a good tool for rough chisel work.
    •  
      CommentAuthorcrosbie
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    A rechargeable/cordless SDS drill will do a tenth the work of a 110Ah Leisure battery. It may be convenient for the odd job, but will not be up to a day's regular use.

    Are you going to buy umpteen 18V 3Ah Li-Ion batteries at 50 quid, or one or two 110Ah Lead Acid batteries at 90 quid?

    Are you putting shelves up, or building a house?

    And bear in mind, there's a lot more things you can power with 12V batteries and inverter than some Makita Li-Ion battery packs.

    However, if you're cycling to your building site, then, ok, the Makita might have the edge.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: crosbieand a £160 5kW inverter.
    Where do you get that from at that price?
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    Thanks for the clarification DandJ - you're not seeing something I don't see which is a relief as I thought you might have some specific concerns with the concrete.

    Yes, pouring the concrete without shuttering is a bit of a short-cut but it was basically one lorry load of concrete whatever so it made sense.

    Yes, it's not pretty with the brackets off centre on the pads and I can't say I'm entirely pleased. The engineer's spec says the 300x300 brackets need to be on 500x500 pads so in effect he's saying at least 100 mm of concrete all round. Apart from these end ones, which I'm sorting, the others meet this requirement, pretty much.
    •  
      CommentAuthorcrosbie
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2015
     
    SteamyTea, see http://r.ebay.com/SeXyIJ - which is probably just about able to deliver 1.5kW...
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2015
     
    I expect the issue is that the batteries start of run out a lot quicker once they have been charged too many times. If Makita allows this, people will keep using the batteries, and come to believe that Makita tools are not good.


    That may have been the intention, but it's not the effect. My 'won't charge anymore on stock charger' pack has _more_ capacity (~3.0Ah) than the others that still will (~2.8AH) (no doubt because it gets less use in practice).
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015
     
    Oops, forgot to “close the loop” on this one. Did the first two brackets with a combi drill and one battery taking days. Did the other two in two days with an SDS drill and multiple batteries. I was expecting the SDS drill to be easier but was amazed how much it was; it went through the concrete like the other drill would through pretty dense wood.

    Only took two days as I did the first bracket with a long bit but had a hard time spotting it right to start (even with a smaller pilot hole) and keeping it straight in the concrete so I decided to go off to another town to get a shorter bit and it was hailing when I got back so I left it overnight.
  2.  
    Just wondering why you want to try to use only battery tools for the build?

    Perhaps Ive missed something but I couldn't imagine doing a house build with out mains powered tools, it seems impossible. But then Ive often been proved wrong on building sites so always willing to learn something new.

    Wish you all the best with the build, I'm going to be following with great interest, its a unique design!
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2015
     
    The options for mains tools are either a generator or batteries and an inverter. Will go for the second as early as possible but really need a box (weather-tight house) to keep them in, first.
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