Please explain why you want listed building status?

I am not aware of any requirement for a minimum ceiling height except for headroom on stairs.

I would get the listed buildings officer to sort it out with building control.

For repairs I did not think building regs were required.

I'm all for listed building status, however, there have been a number of buildings in our town which used to have it. They were derilect for decades. Then, when it became obvious that the cost of the rebuild was too much, they 'mysteriously burned down'. Soon afterwards brand new buildings were erected on the sites.

The relevant Building Control legislation can be found on Page 16 http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1B_2006.pdf

Are you saying that Listed Buildings do not have to comply with Part L1b? Or that in some cases requirements can be relaxed? [which is what I said originally]

Perhaps you should answer every question here then, you being the root of all knowledge

You're welcome Biff, but in this case I believe you are at least partially wrong. A Conservation Officer cannot overule Building Control, and I don't see any posters on the other forum saying that they can. What can happen, is that requirements can be requested to be relaxed - but it is the BCO's decision up until his interpretation is challenged in a court of law.

On a bigger scale, Part L determines a method of compliance with the EPBD and is therfore also a legal requirement under European law.

Hi Jaimito,

The document is useful, but unfortunately refers to The 2002 edition of Part L1/L2, not the further divided 2006 edition [Parts L1B/L2b] which are radically different. These now apply to all existing buildings.

The team strategy is a sensible one, but If they do not agree, then I believe the conservation officer will have to challenge the BCO's ruling through the courts. One of the difficulties of the bregs, is that the requirements are for each and every BCO to interperit as they see fit, but they do so on behalf of the Secretary of State, under the statutory 1984 Buiding Act http://www.communities.gov.uk/planningandbuilding/buildingregulations/legislation/englandwales/buildingregulations/buildingact/ Note that the EPBD falls under this, Part L being the UK method of compliance

Logically, I cannot see how a Conservation Officer can overule a BCO in any circumstances, as to do so would mean them taking legal responsibity for any consequences. Are they for example, sufficiently trained and indemnified to enforce decisions on Parts A [Structure] and B [Fire]?

Come now Biff, Surely anyone who makes design decisions relating to Health and Safety, has a duty of care in common law, and will be responsible for their own actions? especially if they were to attempt to avoid Building Regulation requirements

Not after the comments poured by the BCO

Which route would I be able to take if I do consider there is a lack of competence in the local authority to deal with certain issues?

The staircases, which were destroyed, will need to be rebuild as they were.

Do we still need to build them as a replica of the previous ones? (Even though they don't meet requirements?).
Mike you mentioned you have seen some which complied as narrow as 600mm.

Minimum staircase width, along with minimum ceiling height (except headroom on stairs), were taken out of the Building Regs some time ago. You can go as narrow/low as you like!

Maybe the various Officers are trying to let you realise that you need a good Conservation Architect, and that you'll get nothing but bureaucracy till you find one to oil the wheels for you. The best of such, in my opinion, don't blindly want to restore everything as original, but have a fine sense of which bits really must be restored, and which bits should be done in a modernised way which still complements the original but makes the whole better than it ever was before - and will have the conviction to win for you. against any Officer rigidity.

This particular reference is probably out of date but the article is worth a read...

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/regs/regs.htm

Quote: "In fact the only part of the regulations which does specifically acknowledge the problems of historic buildings is Part B (paragraphs 0.11 - 0.14)."

Nothing much further to add jaimito01, other than agree with Fostertom and CWatters that what you need is a sweet talking architect before EH, Building Control, neighbours et al get sandbagged into position. He'll be worth his fee in promptly squaring away the formalities so you can get on with your project rather than see the gatehouse deteriorate further while your hands are tied and you can't do anything about it.

Came to this thread a bit late.

1) Always work from the top down in a situation like this. So look at the Regulations first (there're only 24 odd but they keep adding A's to earlier numbers) make sure your situation is actually covered by the Building Regulations at all - not all building work is actually "building work" as defined in the Building Regulations. For example Regulation 9 sets out exempt buildings and work Para (3) tells you when the energy efficiency requirements operate Para (4) tells you which buildings fall into Para (3) which are pretty much all that use energy, have walls and a roof but excludes those in Para (5) (I know it's painful!!!) and in Para (5) are listed buildings "where compliance with energy effeciency requirements would unacceptably alter their character or appearance".

So, it's not conservation officer vs BCO. The Regulations state Part L doesn't apply if it alters character or appearance. With a Grade II* I'd say near enough anything would do that.

2) Right, next down the line come the technical Requirements. Read these next. Almost all merely require a "reasonable" level of provision and this is where the negotitation with sensible BCO's comes in. Also check for exemptions from individual requirements for certain circumstances.

3) Finally come the Approved Documents themselves. Remember these only illustrate the governments preferred solution to satisfying that "reasonableness" test. You are not obliged to follow an AD solution if you can show you can meet the requirement in some other way. Use technical papers, foreign codes even "like for like" examples but you need to make your case.

4) Ultimately in really difficult situations you can apply for a determination from the Secretary of State. She (currently) acts as an impartial arbiter as to whether your solution complies or not (using a panel of experts in their fields for advice). The Council doesn't always win!

Late but it may help

Keith