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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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Essential for Newbies: Using expanding foam overhead.

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    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2015
     
    I am insulating the roof of a dormer using “kingspan” type insulation between the rafters. I have just done the side walls by cutting the insulation about 2cm smaller and forming it in, so getting a good air seal.

    But the cans of foams don’t work unless the can is above the gun….

    So how to I form in insulation board overhead?

    (There will be a 2nd layer of insulation boards before the rafters.)
  2.  
    you have to hold the gun with the can as high as possible , handle and can in a horizontal line .
    they loose gas quicker so you may get a little wastage . if you do 1/2 a can like this try and use the rest in the usual way to make the most of the can before it degases
  3.  
    Get some fuel pipe or home-brew pipe and fit it over the delivery tube. Don't try to fit it on the nipple - it'll blow off. Get a wire coat-hanger for regular 'rodding'. If you make the pipe long enough. you can keep the can upside-down at all times. If you do have the can anywhere other tan upside-down, there's a risk it'll deliver propellant only. That then bounces off whatever you are pointing it at, and. if you are not wearing goggles, gets in your eyes. Then you go to eye casualty. It even gets under safety glasses. I know.....
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2015
     
    As above ...we used translucent silicone hose, with a 8-10mm fuel-pipe-hose-clip on the barbed nipple.

    And YES, wear goggles.... :bigsmile:
  5.  
    I'll say it again - *goggles*, not safety glasses.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2015
     
    Posted By: DarylPAs above ...we used translucent silicone hose, with a 8-10mm fuel-pipe-hose-clip on the barbed nipple.

    And YES, wear goggles....:bigsmile:" alt=":bigsmile:" src="http:///newforum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/bigsmile.gif" >


    What size hose and where do you get it from?
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2015
     
    Has anyone tried using 2 part foam with separate tanks?
  8.  
    ''What size hose and where do you get it from?''

    If you want translucent hose, go to a home-brew shop. Last couple of times I used petrol pipe, but that's crazy expensive. Soften the pipe end in hot water. Get the pipe off quickly after use, or it'll be a right b***er to get off. 'Rod' the pipe through immediately after use, and then again a bit later when it has started to harden. Beware of the fact that if the flow is restricted due to 'gunge' in the pipe, it may deliver from the can, but not out the end. It then 'blows' when you remove the pipe!
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2015
     
    You can buy expanding foam cans which do not have to be used upside down.

    For example
    http://www.geocel.co.uk/catalogue/single-brand/great-stuff-pro/dow-great-stuff-pro-all-direction-straw-foam-minimal
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2015
     
    Posted By: nigelYou can buy expanding foam cans which do not have to be used upside down.

    For example
    http://www.geocel.co.uk/catalogue/single-brand/great-stuff-pro/dow-great-stuff-pro-all-direction-straw-foam-minimal" >http://www.geocel.co.uk/catalogue/single-brand/great-stuff-pro/dow-great-stuff-pro-all-direction-straw-foam-minimal


    They don't seem to be about in "gun" format. Also how well do they work upside down?
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2015
     
    I bought mine from ebay, search for aquarium pipe. Good thick hose. Bit more annoying than without though, because of the extra time it takes for the foam to go down the hose and the lack of feedback as a result.

    I just put a bit of gun cleaner down the pipe afterwards and leave it propped up for the cleaner to work its way down. Bit messy though.
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2015
     
    ... Has anyone tried using 2 part foam with separate tanks?

    yes, but v expensive, and it takes a while to get the kanck of it.
    :cry:
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2015
     
    Posted By: DarylP... Has anyone tried using 2 part foam with separate tanks?

    yes, but v expensive, and it takes a while to get the kanck of it.


    Given the number of "normal" cans I am using, how much more expensive does the 2 part work out as for the same amount of foam?
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2015
     
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2015
     
    https://www.abbuildingproducts.co.uk/touch-n-foam-15---complete-kit-pr-5018.php is a cheaper option for a smaller kit, no ideal how good it is.
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2015 edited
     
    Don't end up like this chap
      4dc6637be5e3e5fcd35fbaa3ae995412.jpg
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2015
     
    I think that's a woman actually :bigsmile:

    But hilarious whatever the gender.
  18.  
    I sympathise. I could never cope with hair-gel either.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2015
     
    How did she avoid getting any on her face?
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2015
     
    ? Knee-kab ?

    gg
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2015
     
    Those 2-part kits are for spray-on insulation foam - quite different I think. AFAIK there's no alternative to cartridge/guns - would love to be told otherwise, the quantity used in EWI.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeOct 4th 2015
     
    Do an ebay search for bendy foam gun. Ever build make one. Down dude is the valve is not in the pointy end so conceptually it's not much different to the pipe solutions already mentioned but the pipe is a bendy metal

    Beware no valve in the end means it drips constantly. I have one. Not used it yet but plan to make a cap for mine to cap it tempo between uses an blow through with gun cleaner
    Try and cut all your foam first so gunning is a continuos op

    2pArt foam is available from boat builders in liquid form. YouTube for 2 part foam to see in action, reacts quite slowly, maybe you can mix a small amount and paint on the joint between boards then push together just before it starts reacting. YouTube for vid to see what i mean
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeOct 4th 2015
     
    Oh and you can also

    Make sure the pointy end of your gun is clean at all times
    Open the valve to near full
    Power a line of it from far away
    It should stick, now fit the next sheet

    Beware that foam dispensed like this expands more than normal so use less
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 4th 2015
     
    Posted By: DarylPhttp://foamseal.co.uk/product/foamseal-200-kit/" >http://foamseal.co.uk/product/foamseal-200-kit/
    Posted By: ringihttps://www.abbuildingproducts.co.uk/touch-n-foam-15---complete-kit-pr-5018.php
    Posted By: cjard2pArt foam is available from boat builders in liquid form. YouTube for 2 part foam to see in action, reacts quite slowly, maybe you can mix a small amount and paint on the joint between boards then push together just before it starts reacting. YouTube for vid to see what i mean
    I'd like to get it clear - are these in fact same or equiv to the Bldrs Merch cartridge/gun products? Or are they just spray-on foam insulation, which is def something else?
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeOct 4th 2015
     
    ....... the 'foamseal' product is a 2-part spray-on foam.
    I have only used it on radiussed surfaces, and where the shape was too difficult to get in 'regular' boards.
    :smile:
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeOct 4th 2015 edited
     
    2 part foam seems to be available either in normal cans, like you would buy motor oil in, or it is available in pressurised cylinders looking a bit like a bottle that you put in Your portable gas fire

    When in oil cans, you have a can of A and a can of B, you mix the foam in a receptacle in equal amounts, it eventually reacts and turns into expanding foam, foams, hardens etc

    I suspect the gun foam you buy in an aerosol, made by the likes of soudal, is the 2 part foam, already mixed, with a solvent that keeps it from going off. When expelled from a gun it expands, cures and hardens

    The gas bottle form of 2 part foam is a bottle of A and a bottle of B. A special gun and hose arrangement keeps the liquids separate until they meet at the handle and are forced down a disposable nozzle that is full of plastic walls like a ball bearing maze, this mixes the parts as it ejects and it reacts.

    Darylip is probably talking about the bottles, ringi is talking about the aerosols and I think I'm the only person who has mentioned the oil cans.. But I dare say they're all variations on the same theme, with the aerosols being prevalent due to low unit cost, ease of application and portability/low volume requirements for most uses.

    Bizarrely, when you look at the finished/expanded volumes, the aerosols are better value than the bottles. Less useful as you really need to make a mold you can fill and use gravity, the oil cans are the cheapest way of getting x cubic metres of cured foam, but the most limited in application. I've toyed with the idea of using a 2 part oil can kit gun, and a couple of scuba dive bottles/scuba compressor to make my own 2 part spray bottle kit, just haven't got enough time! :/ or dive compressors
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 4th 2015
     
    Well when I had a discussion with Soudal tech, asking just this - is there a bulk form of building-grade expanding foam, if you're using a lot of it e.g. filing every EWI joint - they said no - but I guess they would say that if gun/cartridge is the only type they make.

    So, with an open mind, how can we find out if these bulk types really are same, or technically suitable, for typical building uses?
  28.  
    Posted By: cjardI've toyed with the idea of using a 2 part oil can kit gun, and a couple of scuba dive bottles/scuba compressor to make my own 2 part spray bottle kit, just haven't got enough time! :/ or dive compressors

    I doubt that you need a scuba type compressor. 300bar is an awful lot of pressure. I would expect a normal garage type compressor (6 -8bar) would do the job
    For disposable mixing nozzles a supply of the mixing nozzles used for the 300ml tubes of 2 part building glue would fit the bill.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2015
     
    When looking at costs, remember that with cans the waist may be as much as 50% as it keeps expanding. As I understand it, with the two part pressurised cylinders, most expanding happens VERY quickly as it is mixed, so the waist may be less.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2015 edited
     
    .

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