Tue, 19 Dec 2023 05:35:10 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158018#Comment_158018 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158018#Comment_158018 Mon, 01 Oct 2012 22:25:15 +0100 jamesingram
So got this figure for wood from steamytea 4.5kWh/kg
and this 4.2kw/kg for seasoned wood from http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison/
also seen estimate for kWh/m3 but can find it .
Ok I know it's a bit of a best guess area , but if you're interested in logging your energy use to compare to other forms of heating energy whats the best option ?

How about ,; I've a 5kW stoves, so if it's on for an hour, that's 5kWh used , is that to simplistic ?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158032#Comment_158032 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158032#Comment_158032 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:06:56 +0100 SteamyTea The 5 kW figure for the stove is probably a peak. You could throw a lighted match in ever few seconds for an hour and it probably would not register on a heat meter.
No, the best way is to weight the timber you typically put in.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158034#Comment_158034 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158034#Comment_158034 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 08:21:22 +0100 Seret http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158035#Comment_158035 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158035#Comment_158035 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 08:36:48 +0100 finny You can determine how much available energy goes into a stove in the form of dry weight of wood, subtracting the moisture percentage. You will have to consider available energy from combustion, which depends on that moisture content..ie higher moisture, cooler, less efficient combustion. Then you look at your installation.. not just the stove, but the flue, how efficient is your system at extracting available energy..also usage patterns, most manufacturers will tell you what a typical burn cycle is for your stove, but in practice people tend to ignore that and do their own thing..everyone knows best when it comes to fire! If you still have over 50% of the initial available energy coming into your house you are lucky
]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158040#Comment_158040 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158040#Comment_158040 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 08:55:25 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: finny50% of the initial available energy coming into your house you are lucky
Too true.

Thinking about it I have a 2 kWp fan heater, not often on for more than about 4 hours on the coldest days and even then it is at the 1 kWp level. So that will be about 2kg of CO2.

A 5 kWp stove/fire probably kicks out half that because of ramping up and ramping down, so that will be 2 kg of wood, as most of the timber is carbon that will be about 5 kg of CO2 before any sequestration (lets not get into that silly definition).]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158046#Comment_158046 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158046#Comment_158046 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 09:19:43 +0100 Beau
If others are interested I will try and dig out the numbers.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158051#Comment_158051 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158051#Comment_158051 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 09:42:03 +0100 joe90
Your conclusion does not suprise me, let Steamy Tea have the figures and he will produce a graph (hes good at that)]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158053#Comment_158053 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158053#Comment_158053 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 09:54:08 +0100 finny http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158057#Comment_158057 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158057#Comment_158057 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:05:57 +0100 SteamyTea http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158058#Comment_158058 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158058#Comment_158058 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:11:17 +0100 RobinB http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158061#Comment_158061 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158061#Comment_158061 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:16:12 +0100 fostertom Posted By: SteamyTea5 kg of CO2 before any sequestrationHow cd sequestration come into it? - burning is the antithesis.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158062#Comment_158062 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158062#Comment_158062 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:25:20 +0100 Seret Posted By: fostertomHow cd sequestration come into it? - burning is the antithesis.

Because carbon that's in the carbon cycle is different from carbon taken out of geological sequestration. Or isn't, depending on your point of view.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158064#Comment_158064 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158064#Comment_158064 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:34:45 +0100 fostertom Posted By: Seretcarbon taken out of geological sequestrationWot, you're talking about burning coal in the 5 kWp stove/fire? Surely this is red-herringsville.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158065#Comment_158065 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158065#Comment_158065 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:38:53 +0100 Beau http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158071#Comment_158071 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158071#Comment_158071 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 11:19:03 +0100 Seret Posted By: fostertomWot, you're talking about burning coal in the 5 kWp stove/fire? Surely this is red-herringsville.

No, ST was talking about comparing carbon from wood (which is carbon in the carbon cycle) with the carbon in grid electricity (which is carbon from geological sequestration).

Don't really want to get into the different points of view on that, as it's OT will likely derail what could otherwise be a useful thread.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158072#Comment_158072 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158072#Comment_158072 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 11:29:18 +0100 finny if we didn't know Tom better, we might suspect him of deliberate sabotage there..]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158091#Comment_158091 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158091#Comment_158091 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 16:07:50 +0100 Beau
Grid Ref SX531715

The weather was fairly steady throughout the test, mainly cloudy and warm. The house was not noticeably affected by solar gain (we don,t get much direct sun in the winter months as the barn runs north south)

Using the wood burning stove, this is not connected to a wet heating system.
I took temperature readings throughout the house and averaged them but the variation from room to room was rarely more than 3C

The logs are hardwood at 20-22% moisture content.
The flue is internal in room to roof so good for squeezing every last bit of heat out.

Date 17/1/12
Inside temperature through the day 20.69c 21.175c 21.525c
Outside temperature through the day 3.6c 8.4c 8.3c
Wood used 19.6Kg

18/1/12
20.65c 18.6c 21.35c
9.9c 11.3c 10.1c
21Kg

19/1/12
20.55c 20.725c 21.775c
10.4c 9.1c 6c
21.8Kg

20/1/12
20c 21.875c 21.475c
7.4c 10.9c 9.6c
19.9Kg

GSHP figures to follow]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158093#Comment_158093 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158093#Comment_158093 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 16:34:06 +0100 Beau
The GSHP also does our hot water so some adjustments to the figures need to be made. I estimate the circulation pump uses 1.68Kwh per day and long term test suggest that the hot water uses 2.26Kwh per day. The temperture lift from the ground loop to the UFH was around 27c

The GSHP heats through UFH so I left it on for a few days to allow for this to come up to temperature.

23/1/12
21.35c 20.85c 20.925c
8.5c 9.8c 8.3c
Meter reading
787Kwh 791Kwh 796Kwh]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158095#Comment_158095 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158095#Comment_158095 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 16:39:35 +0100 Beau

24/1/12
20.925c 21.075c 21.45c
7.9c 7.9c 8.6c
808Kwh 811Kwh 820Kwh

25/1/12
21.025c 21.475c 21.05c
2.5c 10.2c 0c
828Kwh 834Kwh 842Kwh

I am not 100% sure I have got the dates right but the drop in temperature at the end of the test should fit in with any weather data ST might find.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158097#Comment_158097 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158097#Comment_158097 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 16:51:23 +0100 fostertom Posted By: finnyif we didn't know Tom better, we might suspect him of deliberate sabotage thereNo no, I see it now.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158113#Comment_158113 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158113#Comment_158113 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:23:18 +0100 SteamyTea I have weather data for your area. Shall get the data in the morning.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158118#Comment_158118 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158118#Comment_158118 Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:57:50 +0100 WillInAberdeen Posted By: SteamyTea

Thinking about it I have a 2 kWp fan heater, not often on for more than about 4 hours on the coldest days and even then it is at the 1 kWp level. So that will be about 2kg of CO2.

A 5 kWp stove/fire probably kicks out half that because of ramping up and ramping down, so that will be 2 kg of wood, as most of the timber is carbon that will be about 5 kg of CO2 before any sequestration (lets not get into that silly definition).

Don't think its that bad. AIUI wood is mostly carbohydrates (lignin and cellulose) and water. Carbohydrate is about half carbon by weight, half oxygen, with a dash of hydrogen.

So 2kg of wood would give a fair bit less than 5kg of co2, maybe 2 or 3 kg.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158127#Comment_158127 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158127#Comment_158127 Wed, 03 Oct 2012 06:54:16 +0100 SteamyTea http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158158#Comment_158158 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158158#Comment_158158 Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:26:04 +0100 SteamyTea Do you have any more?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158343#Comment_158343 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=158343#Comment_158343 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 22:13:41 +0100 SteamyTea They made a little mistake with kWh typed as kW/h and not checked the figures.

"He estimates that at an average value of 22t per hectare per year, the amount of energy produced by woodchips would be 77,000kW/h per year. This is equivalent to 45 oil barrels or to 23 photovoltaic roof systems each producing 1.8kw from solar power."

Shall look at that later.

1 Barrel of oil is 1628.2 kWh]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=199269#Comment_199269 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9640&Focus=199269#Comment_199269 Mon, 31 Mar 2014 21:58:06 +0100 Archmoco