I keep getting e-mails about the "Green Deal", suggesting I attend various training courses.

The latest offer had a list of points and this set me to wondering. What is it all about and do I need to know more, ideally without wasteing my time?

So anyone here got any answers ---

How does the Green Deal work?
How is the Green Deal funded?
What kinds of customers will the Green Deal benefit the most?
How are Green Deal loans repaid and how long is the payback period?
What is the "Golden Rule?"
What are the roles of the Green Deal Assessors, Providers and Installers?
What do you need to do to prepare your business for the Green Deal?
How will participants in the scheme earn their revenue?
What are the rules about relationships between Assessors and Providers?


By the way I started the tread here because I keep being told energy assessment is key to the deal?

You could also do worse than cast your eye over the results of a 'search' for "Green Deal" in the search facility at the top of the page.

I am with Tony on this one for the same reasons.
I can't see why anyone would buy a house with a debt against it.

For anyone who can borrow on their mortgage for less than the proposed 7.5% interest rate for the Green Deal it will never make much sense.

For landlords who can get their tenants to pay for energy efficiency improvements then it will make a lot of sense.

Those on low incomes or with solid wall homes will get extra help via the ECO part of Green Deal.

How does the Green Deal work? You borrow money and pay it back via your electricity bill.

How is the Green Deal funded? Supposed to be bundled via the bond market at advantageous terms on the basis that the loans are 'low risk'. Government will provide some seed funding and initial incentives. ECO is funded by levy on bills (as CERT is now).

What kinds of customers will the Green Deal benefit the most? Those who cannot raise finance via an extension
to their mortgage. Landlords.

How are Green Deal loans repaid and how long is the payback period? Via electricity bills, flexible. Can be paid back early but may attract extra fees.

What is the "Golden Rule?" The amount of repayment must be less than the predicted saving on the energy bill.

What are the roles of the Green Deal Assessors, Providers and Installers? Assessors visit prospects and assess their energy use (think SAP EPCs) and advise how it can be reduced. Providers handle the finance. Installers put in the insulation or whatever.

What do you need to do to prepare your business for the Green Deal? Depends which segment of the market you might be interested in.

How will participants in the scheme earn their revenue? Installers get paid by the Provider, Provider is paid from repayments, Assessors still not completely clear.

What are the rules about relationships between Assessors and Providers? Still not completely clear but they need to be completely independent.

So if your annual bill for all domestic energy is £500 (as mine is).
I go and borrow £3000 for improvements (not a huge amount), that would attract a interest rate of 7.5%. If the loan is over 20 years that will be £288 per year repayments (total repayment price of £5,693).
My actual energy use should now be £212 or about 2 MWh a year at current prices.
I think that would not be possible on at least 3 counts, 2 MWh/year is about my DHW cost, so would leave nothing for anything else, £3000 would not buy and install a HP or ST (the only alternative to resistance water heating) and because I could not achieve the Golden Rule criteria, I can't get it anyway.
7.5% is way too high.

Posted By: Nick ParsonsThee *only* thing that excites me about it ( and I honestly doubt it will happen to a great extent) is the possibility of prices plummeting in the way that PV prices did, as a result of the GD 'markert intervention'.

Glad you put 'possibility' in there.
The UK market price for PV has been volatile to say the least, it should settle down to near enough world prices on modules, though not installations. Legislation keeps that high (and safety).

Didn't I read somewhere that the GD "assessments" were inclined to be overly optimistic (perhaps to encourage take-up)?

No hint of collusion between assessor and installer though, just that the sums apparently weren't stacking up when reviewed by someone who could add a column of figures and get the decimal point in the right place.

Interesting take on Green Deal by ACE (Association for the Conservation of Energy) in January this year called Dead Cert http://www.ukace.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=654&Itemid=26

A more optimistic view on it a few months later though http://www.ukace.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=674&Itemid=83

I can only see this working where loft insulation and cavity wall insulation are used in conjunction with a condensing boiler and/or PV panel to meet the golden rule. Any other combinations are hard to justify. if you need a new boiler and you can get the feed in tariff its not a bad option. I can't really see any other options paying off. The government estimates for solid wall insulation are very optimistic.

I have just done the Green Deal Advisor Course at http://magmaenterprises.co.uk/index.html.

It was explained that the 7% interest is a maximum and that competition between the 22 currently registered Green Deal Providers will force the interest rate down.

However it is also irrelevant as under "the golden rule" the homeowner cannot be worse off , as the energy savings pay for the energy improvements. The Green Deal stays with the home, which will be warmer and cheaper to run so should not affect property sales.

I know plenty of older people who could desperately do with a new condensing boiler as the boiler they have is hanging and about 70% efficient. Most have no chance of paying for one , under the GD they could have one as part of a package and get cheaper bills. How can it fail ?
Furthermore the old person in question is unlikely to ever pay off the GD but at least will live out their remaining years in some comfort. With so many people in fuel poverty the government had to do something!

There is also going to be ECO , totally free improvements for the very vunerable.

There is some green deal information here :- http://www.greendeal-dorset.org.uk/

An older person could for sure walk into any high street bank or building society and get a loan cheaper than the Green Deal and I would recommend this route, they should already have got all the free insulation they need if not they have two months do do so.

Try first they are sure to do the loft for you.

Big sheds are selling rolls of insulation very cheap.

Posted By: Gavin_AI'm amazed at the level of stupidity involved in setting up this scheme tbh, this is absolutely basic energy advice stuff.

I doubt that there was much stupidity. I'd expect that it has been carefully detailed to ensure take up is low and that the government won't have to pay a penny, nor will the energy companies, who have been made tax collectors by proxy in previous arrangements.

Tbh, I don't think most people look particularly hard at utility bills or EPCs before moving in anyway, so I wouldn't expect it to affect property prices either. It'll only be an issue if solicitors or estate agents make a big deal out of it to their clients.

Not sure I agree with that. When we went house hunting prior to doing our self build we had a budget of what we could afford to spend monthly on a property. The mortgage repayment + utility bills were used in the calculation. What we found was that when looking at Victorian houses we had at least £30k less to spend (i.e. less money to spend on the mortgage due to high utility bills). Am I alone in doing this? - these days I doubt it.

Posted by Gavin:
This sounds fine in principle, but as I understand it (following a meeting specifically to discuss it), the savings aren't based on actual gas consumption levels in the house, but on an RDSAP estimate of what those savings would be on average in an average house with those specifications and occupancy levels.

The EPC (energy rating) produced for the property is based on RdSAP, but the Green Deal Advisor will take account of individual usage look at the individua'ls bills, times at home, etc. I wonder at what meeting you picked up the info you refered to. I am in the process of getting my domestic energy assessor paper and will be starting the Green Deal advisor course later this month.

I do agree with everybody on the business of the high interest rate, it really limits the ability of the Green Deal.