Politics: EU:- in or out?

841 to 870 of 996

- CommentAuthorgravelld
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016 edited
There's a school of thought that says one reason the German economy is so strong is because of the zombie economies bringing the Euro down to a level lower than the DM would be, cheapening German exports.
- CommentAuthorowlman
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
The EU is in for a rough ride, no doubt. Several countries have vociferous calls for similar referenda. Notably, they are mainly net contributors to the EU budget. Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, France, and others like the fast growing Polish and perhaps Hungarian economies, perhaps not too long before they too become a net payers. Maybe it's all about money.
Treaty change??? anyone.
- CommentAuthorfostertom
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
Posted By: owlmanTreaty change??? anyone.
Exactly - expect major morphing, don't assume the devolved former-UK won't be part of it.
- CommentAuthorowlman
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
Yes, Perhaps.
- CommentAuthorPile-o-Stone
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016 edited
It's impossible for the EU to reform or change in any meaningful way. Expect it to collapse and be in ruins before the Eurocrats even consider making any changes.

They have two parliaments, one in Brussels and one in Strasbourg. They move from Brussels to Strasbourg once a month at huge expense and with a massive carbon footprint. They all know that this is unsustainable and yet they won't/can't change the status quo. If they can't change something as fundamentally wrong as that, what hope is there?
- CommentAuthorfostertom
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
Posted By: Pile-o-Stonewhat hope is there?
A crisis (i.e. now + next few weeks). Many cases of countries/institutions pulling back from the brink
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Collapse-Societies-Choose-Fail-Survive/dp/0241958687/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468325046&sr=8-1&keywords=collapse
- CommentAuthortorrent99
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
Agreed, I think a significant morphing of the EU is on the cards. My bet is that the PIGS will either withdraw from the Euro or create Euro-lite.

Pile-o-stone if treaty change resulted in the EU going back to the "common market" style model, would you want the UK in or out?
- CommentAuthorskyewright
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
Posted By: Pile-o-StoneIf they can't change something as fundamentally wrong as that, what hope is there?

As Samuel Johnson apparently put it:
"Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully."

To be understood in a purely figurative sense of course...
- CommentAuthorbot de paille
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016 edited
None of the pigs can leave the EU now, as they know they will suffer catastrophic economic implosion. They are now prisoners to the EU central bank.
- CommentAuthorPile-o-Stone
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
Posted By: torrent99
Pile-o-stone if treaty change resulted in the EU going back to the "common market" style model, would you want the UK in or out?

It depends on whether you have to pay a fee to be allowed to trade in the market and if you have to give up any sovereignty. If 'yes' to either of those, then I'd prefer to stay out.
- CommentAuthorowlman
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
<blockquote><cite>Posted By: skyewright......................
As Samuel Johnson apparently put it:
<blockquote>"Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully."</blockquote>
To be understood in a purely figurative sense of course...</blockquote>

Figuratively speaking of course, Die SchwÃ¤bische Hausfrau may have such plans for "President Junker" .
- CommentAuthorPeter_in_Hungary
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
Posted By: torrent99if treaty change resulted in the EU going back to the "common market" style model, would you want the UK in or out?

Common market or single market - not much difference in my book - but it works and it would be a great shame to see that particular baby thrown out with the bath water!
e.g. I needed a part for my old tractor (circa 1972) I found one via the internet, it was in Denmark, never mind I ordered it paid via bank card and the part would be sent. That was Sunday evening, today mid-day (Tuesday) the part arrived. - Try doing that when there are customs and tariffs and customs agents between me and my spare parts !!

It would have been nice to have a single currency so that the banks did not cream off their %age changing my beer tokens to their beer tokens, but that has been tried and totally messed up by making it a political entity not a purely financial one. (IMO)
- CommentAuthoradwindrum
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
One of my reasons for staying in EU is that I like paying more to other countries so they can be improved. Obviously I don't like the huge wastage that goes on but I don't like that happening at my local parish council level either. It doesn't mean I want out of that(...although......!).

The fears expressed here about Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal etc and the strains of the EU are also reasons I want to stay a part of the EU. We have a stabilising influence which is important. The Brexiters here seem to be excited about how much money the UK can make if it pulls out and leaves the sinking ship. I really don't think that is as important as avoiding another European war that instability brings and is a very real prospect should things deteriorate.
- CommentAuthorbot de paille
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
Posted By: adwindrumOne of my reasons for staying in EU is that I like paying more to other countries so they can be improved. Obviously I don't like the huge wastage that goes on but I don't like that happening at my local parish council level either. It doesn't mean I want out of that(...although......!).

The fears expressed here about Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal etc and the strains of the EU are also reasons I want to stay a part of the EU. We have a stabilising influence which is important. The Brexiters here seem to be excited about how much money the UK can make if it pulls out and leaves the sinking ship. I really don't think that is as important as avoiding another European war that instability brings and is a very real prospect should things deteriorate.

have you seen the white elephant projects that Spain borrowed and spent millions of Euros on??
Socialist Mayors in tiny villages sinking their communities in massive amounts of debt to fund absurd projects.
- CommentAuthoradwindrum
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016
Bot - Not sure of your point? I am aware of wasting of money. Perhaps there will now be even more wasting of money when we leave?
I see no benefit/improvement to the corruption with us leaving.
I would also add that for every provincial Mayor spending a few million there will be a few countries benefiting by billions bringing entire populations out of poverty. I like to dwell on that part. That is the bigger picture.
- CommentAuthormarktime
- CommentTimeJul 12th 2016 edited
Posted By: bot de paille<

have you seen the white elephant projects that Spain borrowed and spent millions of Euros on??
Socialist Mayors in tiny villages sinking their communities in massive amounts of debt to fund absurd projects.

So did they get the euros or did they go into debt because they weren't funded by the EU? Were they really PSOE or PP Mayors? Do you know the difference? A couple of examples would be good.

One simple instance of how the EU really is helping is in reducing the amount of money that right wing governments can give the banks to bail them out. A little analysis would show you that it is not the EU administration putting Italy against the ropes, it's our old friends the bankers again.
- CommentAuthormarktime
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016 edited
Here's another bureaucratic nightmare that will soon bother the UK no longer.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/13/action-to-cut-food-waste-gains-momentum-across-europe

"Efforts to force supermarkets and other businesses to waste less food are gaining momentum following Franceâ€™s ban on supermarkets throwing out unwanted food, according to campaigners.

Earlier this month MEPs voted 600 to 48 to bring forward laws to end unfair trading practices by supermarkets, many of which lead to overproduction and food being wasted.!"

But wait.

"Binding laws to halve food waste across the continent by 2030 were also demanded in a separate report by the parliamentâ€™s environment committee after the European commission ditched food waste targets from a draft law last year."

Who do you think was behind that?

"Last year, the UK government ignored a recommendation from the environmental audit committee of MPs to end the â€œthrowaway societyâ€. The Department for Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) was subsequently criticised for working closely with industry groups on the issue."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/20/eu-drops-food-waste-marine-litter-reduction-targets-leak-reveals.

â€œCorporate lobbying appears to have watered down the best ambitions for the circular economy concept,â€ said Eve Mitchell of Food and Water Europe."

All these malign influences will now go away thank goodness seeing as the UK will soon be a sovereign nation once again.

Viva la Reina!
- CommentAuthorferdinand2000
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016 edited
I have to say I love the goonocracy that runs France, in the same way that I used to enjoy Rhubarb and Custard or Paddington when I was 10.

From the article linked (I won't bother to dismantle the over simplistic statistics this time - suspect there is a lot of bull excrement in with the food waste):
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/04/french-law-forbids-food-waste-by-supermarkets

"Of the 7.1m tonnes of food wasted in France annually, 67% is binned by consumers, 15% by restaurants and 11% by shops. Each year 1.3bn tonnes of food are wasted worldwide."

So they pass a law targetted at the sector responsible for 11% of the problem, not the 67%.

Presumably the Pareto Principle of addressing important causes first is boycotted because he was an Italian economist.

Glorious. :-D

Ferdinand
- CommentAuthorMike1
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016
Another person's life-saving surgery threatened by the post-Brexit fall in the pound:
http://www.itv.com/news/central/2016-07-11/post-brexit-fall-in-the-pound-jeopardises-mum-of-twos-life-saving-surgery/
- CommentAuthorMike1
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016
Posted By: ferdinand2000"Of the 7.1m tonnes of food wasted in France annually, 67% is binned by consumers, 15% by restaurants and 11% by shops. Each year 1.3bn tonnes of food are wasted worldwide."

So they pass a law targeted at the sector responsible for 11% of the problem, not the 67%

Just to clarify, are you proposing that French supermarkets are allowed to go back to throwing out food, instead of being required to donate it to food banks or charities? Or you'd prefer the law to be extended to require consumers to donate their surplus food as well?
- CommentAuthorferdinand2000
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016 edited
Posted By: Mike1Another person's life-saving surgery threatened by the post-Brexit fall in the pound:
http://www.itv.com/news/central/2016-07-11/post-brexit-fall-in-the-pound-jeopardises-mum-of-twos-life-saving-surgery/

I'm not letting that go. Sorry for being blunt, but that cannot be blamed purely on Brexit.

It is equally arguably threatened by the incompetence of the managers in not holding it in the currency in which they knew it would imminently be spent, when they knew full well that there would be volatility. But that is not such a good headline.

What were they thinking?

We had multiple warnings from Ministers, Mark Carney and the likes of George Soros.

There was plenty of expectation that the currency would fall, and plenty of people even hedged their holiday money ahead. Even Sainsbury's have been fulfilling orders today at the pre-Brexit rate, placed up to 7:30am on the morning of the 23rd June, telling people how much better off they were than otherwise.

Human sympathy for the lady of course, but this claim and attempt to use it in this way are shoddy.

Ferdinand
- CommentAuthorferdinand2000
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016 edited
Posted By: Mike1
Posted By: ferdinand2000"Of the 7.1m tonnes of food wasted in France annually, 67% is binned by consumers, 15% by restaurants and 11% by shops. Each year 1.3bn tonnes of food are wasted worldwide."

So they pass a law targeted at the sector responsible for 11% of the problem, not the 67%

Just to clarify, are you proposing that French supermarkets are allowed to go back to throwing out food, instead of being required to donate it to food banks or charities? Or you'd prefer the law to be extended to require consumers to donate their surplus food as well?

I deliberately made no comment on that.

I suspect the whole thing is gesture politics; quite a cheap, populist publicity stunt against an easy target, rather than having a sensibly thought through policy to address the bigger question.

I think the way they have implemented this policy underlines my point.

My view is that crude bans and bureaucratic overkill on things are hardly ever the correct way, and because people who want to ban things they don't like seem to be everywhere, preventing such is a battle to be fought every day.

It reminds me of Monsieur Hollande's wealth tax that was going to save France, that partially won him the election then turned into a pink elephant.

Ferdinand
- CommentAuthorMike1
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016 edited
Posted By: ferdinand2000
Posted By: Mike1Another person's life-saving surgery threatened by the post-Brexit fall in the pound:

I'm not letting that go. Sorry for being blunt, but that cannot be blamed purely on Brexit.

It is equally arguably threatened by the incompetence of the managers in not holding it in the currency in which they knew it would imminently be spent, when they knew full well that there would be volatility. But that is not such a good headline.

What were they thinking?

Maybe they believed Boris who said, "I would remind you that everybody said the pound would fall as a result of our leaving the ERM and on the contrary the pound strengthened". [News at Ten, 11/05/2016]

Or Nigel Farage, who said that forecasts of economic woe were "ludicrous scare stories", and that "If sterling were to fall a few percentage points after Brexit, so what?" [Andrew Marr Show, 12/06/2016]

What were they thinking? And why have they both run away?
- CommentAuthorferdinand2000
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016 edited
Posted By: Mike1
Posted By: ferdinand2000
Posted By: Mike1Another person's life-saving surgery threatened by the post-Brexit fall in the pound:

I'm not letting that go. Sorry for being blunt, but that cannot be blamed purely on Brexit.

It is equally arguably threatened by the incompetence of the managers in not holding it in the currency in which they knew it would imminently be spent, when they knew full well that there would be volatility. But that is not such a good headline.

What were they thinking?

Maybe they believed Boris who said,"I would remind you that everybody said the pound would fall as a result of our leaving the ERM and on the contrary the pound strengthened".[News at Ten, 11/05/2016]

Or Nigel Farage, who said that forecasts of economic woe were "ludicrous scare stories", and that"If sterling were to fall a few percentage points after Brexit, so what?"[Andrew Marr Show, 12/06/2016]

What were they thinking?

I don't know what they were thinking, but if I was due to spend Â£150k in a different country in about 6 weeks time at a time of volatility, and I had Â£100k sitting in a bank account, I would ask my bank manager then manage my risk prudently.

Various opinions in the papers would, at the least, be a red flag to take advice.

It isn't rocket science, is it?

I would describe Boris as "kneecapped" rather than fled, in the traditionally ruthless Tory power-seeking manner, and Farage quitting at the peak having achieved his main objective. There's no chance of him being in the Govt, so why stay. He could be trying to be altruistic in removing a target as UKIP repositions to go up against Labour in the North, but I can't make a call on that.

Ferdinand
- CommentAuthorMike1
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016
Posted By: ferdinand2000I don't know what they were thinking, but if I was due to spend Â£150k in a different country in about 6 weeks time at a time of volatility, and I had Â£100k sitting in a bank account, I would ask my bank manager then manage my risk prudently.

Well so would I - but the referendum suggests that prudence isn't top of the priority list for everyone, and that a sizable number seem to disregard expert opinions.
- CommentAuthorMike1
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016
Posted By: ferdinand2000I suspect the whole thing is gesture politics; quite a cheap, populist publicity stunt against an easy target, rather than having a sensibly thought through policy to address the bigger question

Then it's a gesture politics resulting from a year-long campaign by a French MP, backed by a petition of over 765,000 people.
- CommentAuthorferdinand2000
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016 edited
Posted By: Mike1
Posted By: ferdinand2000I suspect the whole thing is gesture politics; quite a cheap, populist publicity stunt against an easy target, rather than having a sensibly thought through policy to address the bigger question

Then it's a gesture politics resulting from a year-long campaign by a French MP, backed by a petition of over 765,000 people.

Quite possibly :-) !

If you reflect on some of the more bonkers proposals we have seen, I can believe it.

Well so would I - but the referendum suggests that prudence isn't top of the priority list for everyone, and that a sizable number seem to disregard expert opinions.

Yes. But if I had Â£125k and my life at risk, it would concentrate my mind.

Dinner threatens, so I'll stop here.

Ferdinand
- CommentAuthorMike1
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016
May be of interest to some - 1st edition of The New European newspaper available now in print or as an app:
http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/
- CommentAuthorbot de paille
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016
Meanwhile Jose Manauel Barroso, unelected President of the European Commission for 15 years has now taken a job with Goldman Sachs.

"The crisis was exacerbated years ago by a deal with Goldman Sachs, engineered by Goldmanâ€™s current CEO, Lloyd Blankfein. Blankfein and his Goldman team helped Greece hide the true extent of its debt, and in the process almost doubled it.

In 2001, Greece was looking for ways to disguise its mounting financial troubles. The Maastricht Treaty required all eurozone member states to show improvement in their public finances, but Greece was heading in the wrong direction. Then Goldman Sachs came to the rescue, arranging a secret loan of 2.8 billion euros for Greece, disguised as an off-the-books â€œcross-currency swapâ€

Then the deal turned sour. After the 9/11 attacks, bond yields plunged, resulting in a big loss for Greece because of the formula Goldman had used to compute the countryâ€™s debt repayments under the swap. By 2005, Greece owed almost double what it had put into the deal, pushing its off-the-books debt from 2.8 billion euros to 5.1 billion. In 2005, the deal was restructured and that 5.1 billion euros in debt locked in.

Perhaps not incidentally, Mario Draghi, now head of the European Central Bank and a major player in the current Greek drama, was then managing director of Goldmanâ€™s international division.
- CommentAuthorbot de paille
- CommentTimeJul 13th 2016
"Why wouldnâ€™t the EU go after Goldman? Might it have something to do with the fact that Mario Draghi, President of the European Central Bank (ECB), worked for Goldman between 2002 and 2005? The link between the bank and Eurocrats is alarming. As well as counting our own Mark Carney as an ex-employee, Goldman alumni also include Petros Christodoulou, who managed Greeceâ€™s debt management quango; Mario Monti, the technocrat appointed as Italian prime minister after the EU deposed the democratically elected government; Antonio Borges, the former European chief of the IMF; and Otmar Issing, former board member of the ECB."

http://www.betteroffout.net/fat-cats-a-tale-of-goldman-sachs-and-the-eu/

841 to 870 of 996



	Site Map \| Home \| View Cart \| Pressroom \| Business \| Links	Contact Us
Logout
© Green Building Press

Green Building Forum

Categories

Feeds

Politics: EU:- in or out?