It isn't common sense Barney.

I live in my house. In the event I'm still here in 40 years time, rather than having sold up and bought a bungalow in a quiet town near the coast and a hospital, I'll move the sockets and light switches. It's easy. AD-M compliant positions - putting everything where it is convenient for a shortarse or wheelchair bound person, would just annoy me for 40 years.


What AD-M *should* do is set rules on all the bits that are difficult to change afterwards and aren't changed routinely. For example:

Thou should not fit a door with a clear opening of less than 975 x 2000 mm in a structural opening not less than 2100 x 1100 mm. (standard Dutch/German doors) If you do fit a door with a clear opening smaller than this, against our good advice which was designed to ensure that it is safely passable by both wheelchair users AND 99th percentile males (for UK about 190cm naked, 193 cm with shoes on, getting on for 200 cm with a slight bounce in their walk - and getting taller) then you will still ensure that the structural opening is 2100x1100 mm so that a full size door can be fitted at some point in the future without major structural rework.

Thou need not fit handrails, banisters, and stairlifts. You will however ensure that adequate structural provision is made for them, again made so as to be suitable for a 99th percentile male plus suitcase, or 150 kg, whichever is lesser. (no need to make it suitable for the obese; they have a choice in the matter whereas a 6'4" rugby player carrying a suitcase doesn't)

Thou need not fit a downstairs bathroom. You will however ensure that the services in the building and load bearing walls are laid out in such a way as to make this possible at a future date.

etc.

This is what makes buildings future-proof, sustainable, and versatile. I'd also say it's more a planning issue then a building regulations issue. Social housing and that designed for rental (all flats) ought to include most of AD-M from the get go. Private dwellings, extensions, and change of use on a case by case basis.


Light switches and suchlike are just an annoyance; there are far greater issues with future-proofing than where you stick a wire that's easily changed. I won't argue with AD-M's good intent, but it isn't currently useful.

Posted By: markocosicThou should not fit a door with a clear opening of less than 975 x 2000 mm in a structural opening not less than 2100 x 1100 mm. (standard Dutch/German doors)

Any idea where I can buy those doors at a reasonable price? 838x1981 is the limit of many ranges. Making the structural opening bigger is a sensible idea. In my case, all the internal walls can be stripped out and moved if desired but it will be still better to optimise the studwork if I can.

Posted By: jamesingramso what if us tall fellows have to bend down a bit

We get backache, that's what. There've been times I've had to carry a stick to avoid bending down. Conversely SWMBO has to use a grabber tool for distant or tall things, or stand on a stool, so finding the 'right' answer is not easy. Steamy's light switch pull cords really are a good idea.

And there's definitely an issue that if I'm spending lots of my money, I should be able to spend it on what I want, not on what some bureaucrat thinks might be good for some hypothetical person that might occupy the house after me. I can think about my own old age for myself, and decide what is sensible in my circumstances. There are reasonable limits there, I agree, but regulations go beyond the boundaries of nanny-statism, IMHO.

Holland, Germany, Poland

"Doors, Germany" into Google - first result:

http://www.lebo.de/english/downloads-kataloge.html

2100 x 1100 was the most common size when SWMBO was looking to refurb her apartment in Lithuania. (cheaper stuff imported from Poland, spendier stuff imported from Germany)


I'd be all for designing homes for multiple occupancy james, provided that it was done rationally. Do you design for 99th percentile? Unsuitable for 1 in 100? How about 99.9th percentile? Unsuitable for 1 in 1000. That'll be 2 metres tall. Big doors, tall ceilings, bedrooms designed take euro (200 cm mattress) beds. Lots to like. Unfortunately the regs only pander to the most vocal* groups - disabled, old, and short.


*Can you imagine the fuss that this would cause if the applicant were a disabled female, preferably also a single mother etc?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/29/3

Would basketball players be able to sue you for discrimination, I wonder, for being sizist?

More usefully, this is the assumption used by the HHSRS system used for rental properties (and potentially applicable to all houses), which relies on the concept of "most vulnerable potential user":

"They will judge the severity of the risk by thinking about the likelihood of an occurrence that could cause harm over the next twelve months, and the range of harms that could result. The local authority officer will make these judgements by reference to those who, mostly based on age, would be most vulnerable to the hazard, even if people in these age groups may not actually be living in the property at the time. This means even a vacant dwelling can be assessed and that if the dwelling is rated as safe for those considered to be most vulnerable it will be safe for anyone."
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9425/150940.pdf

This does not address mutual contradictions of course.

Personally I'm far from convinced that every property needs to be built to cater to the needs of smallish minorities. Even low-mobility disabled people are a small proportion, so one property in 5 new builds being adapted would not represent a huge loss of scope of choice.

One interesting one coming down the track is unisex loos in public/commercial buildings, the concept of binary genders being an institutional discrimination (or something). As far as I can tell bits of the transgender lobby are at war with bits of the feminist lobby, since some people think that loos which are not gender-segregated are also an institutional discrimination. A good spectator sport.

What do European nirvanas such as Denmark, Sweden, German and France do on these questions?

Ferdinand

I expect that you'd be (fairly) discriminated against/not hired for being useless at the job if you were too short to play basketball.

Grey area if you'd already got the job before you became too fat/decrepit to do physical work and too obstinate/stupid to be retrained. The refinery that the old man worked at used to have fire training in everybody's job description to mitigate the unfair dismissal risk in that scenario: you all had to pass the firefighter test to have a job on site. Immediate cause to dismiss faties and retards. I wasn't too onerous as the receptionist forcibly retired (by head office, not the site) at 70 still passed each year, but many of the men in their 50s who had let themselves go to the point they struggled.

Short term thinking is a problem we have on a more widespread level. NHS will spend tens of thousands extending the life of one terminally ill patient by a couple of months rather than fixing the knees/hands/backs of tens of otherwise capable people for decades to come. 12 months covers overtly broken things, electrical/gas installations that aren't to current standards, and the odd acute accessibility problem. Chronic problems - indoor air quality being a major one of them I think - are rarely addressed.

There's hope mind: they've worked out that free stairlifts or downstairs loos cost less than hip replacements. One day they'll work out that MVHR with particulate matter filtration costs less than "asthma" in cities. One day...

Posted By: Ed Davies

Posted By: djhAny idea where I can buy those doors at a reasonable price? 838x1981 is the limit of many ranges.

Surely if regs required bigger doors they'd become available pretty quickly.

No question. But I want to buy the doors now,not in some hypothetical future.

My only input on all this would be that wide doors are quite a help for able-bodied people to stay able bodied by not straining their backs carrying awkward shaped things through (boxes of shopping, etc) held lengthwise rather than widthwise, if you see what I mean.

Agreed.

It's a bit of a compromise on my house design but I'm keen to make the two doors (porch and main front door) on the route from the outside to the kitchen area as wide as possible for this reason. Vague ideas are forming of a custom front door which is quadrilateral but not rectangular for this reason.

If by 'custom' you mean bought, think many dollars! If you plan on making it, consider weights and hinge loads. We just had to adjust our house design a bit because the planned external doors were wider than the maximum in the range.

Posted By: djhIf by 'custom' you mean bought, think many dollars!

Thinking either DIY or subbed out to a local carpenter. Yes - shouldn't skimp on the hinges.

Difficult to find double doors - effectively what an opening sidelight is - that'll tolerate the abuse of being used as an entrance doors. The second half soon falls to pieces. Even where the sidelight is supposed to be a "fixed" one with cheap doors!

It only gets you as far as the staircase or internal door too.

Internal doors with quick release hinges are VERY handy come to think of it. Kid brother's tick tacky Wimpey build from the early 90s has some doors that evidently came pre hung/pre framed/pre furnitured. They had quick release no-tool hinges that allow you to remove the whole door lead and buy yourself an extra 40 mm on all those doors that open against walls. Doesn't sound like much but makes a huge difference when hoiking non IKEA furniture and appliances around.

SWEDOR are the brand; best made part of his house as Wimpeys didn't make it... :-o

http://www.jeld-wen.se/

They make your "big" doors too available in the UK too; prices from £36 a door.

http://www.jeld-wen.co.uk/products/interior-doors/products/

All doors here have lift off hinges, including entrance doors - open the door to 90 deg. and lift off - very handy.
But back to the OP. I like pull cord switches for wet areas, solves safety issues (but are unknown here)