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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
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Housing - New Build: Timber Frame Annexe Construction

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    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    I'm going to construct a garden annexe so as to have somewhere to live during my forthcoming self build. It's also a chance for me to practice my woodworking techniques. I have constructed small simple timber frames in the past, but I was wondering if there are any reference works available, either on-line or in print that show the various timber frame construction details, current best practice etc.
    • CommentAuthorCerisy
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    Heck of a lot on the various frame manufacturers websites or go to TRADA bookshop for their latest edition of the Timber Frame Construction. I found it invaluable in the early stages.
  3.  
    Out of the Woods, by Pat Borer and Cindy Harris. Excellent Walter Segal primer. Only prob is it's out of print and Amazon seem to want £40 s/h!
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    I'm sure I recall someone posting a link to a sort of cartoon guide to building a whole house in the Segal manner, but I can't find it at present. IIRC the link was Irish in origin? Maybe someone else has the link?
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    Skyewright, are you thinking of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_zys29NFN8&feature=youtu.be or something else?
  6.  
    +1 for the trada book, excellent reference guide for everything. they used to do it on CD too, with full sets of CAD details
    • CommentAuthorPeterW
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    I've got a copy of the book Nick refers to if you want to borrow it..?

    Cheers

    Peter
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: Ed DaviesSkyewright, are you thinking of this: ... or something else?

    Something else. Not a video. It looked like a set of hand drawn sheets (though maybe hand drawn on a graphics tablet?). Simple black & white. I was sure I'd bookmarked it, but it must have been about the time I was last swapping browsers & it seems to have fallen down the gap...
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013 edited
     
    Just to confirm, is this the correct book - Timber frame construction 5th edition, £60 to non-members? No discount for GBF members?

    https://www.trada.co.uk/bookshop/view/8245D2F0-B0D4-468C-B166-B4910DA265C9/Timber_frame_construction_5th_edition

    Anyone seen this one? Low energy timber frame buildings: designing for high performance, 2nd edition - Any good? Only £45 to non-members!

    https://www.trada.co.uk/bookshop/view/33AF4298-B0D6-47D9-9396-7D6DC795779E/
    • CommentAuthorcullym
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    @skyewright, Is this the one you're thinking of

    http://www.irishvernacular.com/step-by-step.html
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: cullym@skyewright, Is this the one you're thinking of
    http://www.irishvernacular.com/step-by-step.html

    Spot on. Thank you. Properly bookmarked now. :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeAug 31st 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: TriassicJust to confirm, is this the correct book - Timber frame construction 5th edition, £60 to non-members? No discount for GBF members?

    https://www.trada.co.uk/bookshop/view/8245D2F0-B0D4-468C-B166-B4910DA265C9/Timber_frame_construction_5th_edition" rel="nofollow" >https://www.trada.co.uk/bookshop/view/8245D2F0-B0D4-468C-B166-B4910DA265C9/Timber_frame_construction_5th_edition

    Anyone seen this one? Low energy timber frame buildings: designing for high performance, 2nd edition - Any good? Only £45 to non-members!

    https://www.trada.co.uk/bookshop/view/33AF4298-B0D6-47D9-9396-7D6DC795779E/" rel="nofollow" >https://www.trada.co.uk/bookshop/view/33AF4298-B0D6-47D9-9396-7D6DC795779E/


    No discount to GBF members AFAIK. The timber frame book is good for mainstream timber frame construction. The low energy book is OK, but a bit light on proper detail - it is a bit more conceptual. Another TRADA book to look for is innovative timber construction if you are involved with SIPs, CLT, I Studs or twin stud timber frame.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2013 edited
     
    Having followed all the links and considered the options I was thinking I'd try out an I-Beam construction, using I-Beams for the walls and the roof. I was wondering if anyone had come across something similar to the Irish Vernacular (see above) but aimed at the use of I-Beams. Alternatively do any of the I-Beam manufacturers provided literature on the use of their products, design considerations, construction detailing etc.

    I have tried Google and my head is spinning at all that information, someone must have documented the use of I-Beams in the construction of a small garden annexe, if only I could find it!!
  14.  
    Triassic, I have a portal I-beam timber frame in my house and I think it would be a relatively easy type of construction for a small garden annexe.
  15.  
    Isn't Viking House's twin wall stud very similar to I-beams? Maybe Seamus can give you some pointers?
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2013
     
    Popped into timber dealers behind Inverness airport on Monday (I-beams, roof trusses, glulam, etc) and got a) some idea of prices for I-beams (quite encouraging) and b) a James Jones brochure on the subject with span tables for floors, roofs, rules for storage, cutting, etc. Not exactly an off-the-shelf design but would give a good idea of what you can do. See if they have a dealer near you: http://www.jji-joists.co.uk/ .

    (BTW, 56no 235 mm × 8 m joists would come to just under £2200. Might give some idea though a bit more substantial than you might be thinking of.)
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2013
     
    I've just realised my problem I don't know what I need to know!!

    The annexe will be subject to planning and building control and will be constructed using traditional stick timber frame techniques with I-Joist roof, but I don't know what size timber (joists) to use or what the BC will be looking for. The finished room will be it will be around 5x6 m and sub-divided internally to create a separate bedroom and toilet. Any thoughts or guidance you can give very welcome.
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2013
     
    Go twin stud if you want deep walls. Should be more cost effective than I joists.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2013 edited
     
    Or single stud and deep cross 'battens' fixed across them, and/or single rafters and deep skinny widely spaced cross 'purlins' fixed across them - great for verge overhang. All blown full of Warmcel. I did the U values, and I joists had negligible advantage.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2013
     
    How big is big enough when sizing timber for say a 6x6 metre square building with open cathedral ceiling?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2013 edited
     
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2013
     
    Posted By: fostertomOr single stud and deep cross 'battens' fixed across them, and/or single rafters and deep skinny widely spaced cross 'purlins' fixed across them - great for verge overhang. All blown full of Warmcel. I did the U values, and I joists had negligible advantage.

    Twin stud has less thermal bridging though.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2013
     
    How much of a bridge is a series of 50x38 squares in the middle zone of 250mm of Warmcel? It's a Therm expt I could try. By the now required Combined method, such a construction gives better U value than by the slightly naive Proportional Area method.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2013
     
    Posted By: cullymhttp://www.irishvernacular.com/step-by-step.html
    I recall someone here suggesting a crowd sourced house design or wiki thingy and then Cullen reminded us of this, what a great idea, a complete design for a house, plans and all.
    • CommentAuthorMikeRumney
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2013 edited
     
    Went through all of these b4 following Viking's suggestion of 150mm Studs (Insulation interspersed)
    enclosed in 150mm EWI and rendered ... Calcs lost in the mists of time but this looked like the best
    "cost to benefit" option ... Could maybe improve on that with Larch rain-screen or similar instead of render?

    Couldn't get engineering calcs for I beams as rafters so did something along the lines of a hybrid of fosterom's and timber's suggestions above ... namely twin rafters and hidden purlin/cross batten all in 150mm giving 145mm approx cross section and stuffed full of Hemp:
  26.  
    Posted By: MikeRumneyCouldn't get engineering calcs for I beams as rafters so did something along the lines of a hybrid of fosterom's and timber's suggestions above ... namely twin rafters and hidden purlin/cross batten all in 150mm giving 145mm approx cross section and stuffed full of Hemp
    Looks great. Do you mean 450mm cross section/depth? Where are you putting the air barrier?

    David
    • CommentAuthorMikeRumney
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2013 edited
     
    ... sorry, the timbers are 47mm/145mm so yes,15mm short of "450mm" depth ... Mr Typo came to tea.
    Air barrier on the inside (Intello Plus), panelvent boards on the outside.

    Then, if you only have one pair of hands, you have to do a lot of this:
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2013
     
    So having decided on the size, style and construction, I'm at a bit of a loss about producing plans, I'm no architect and I'm very much an amateur when it comes to Sketchup. Can anyone suggest how to get the ideas on paper, suitable for planning? Can I buy plans off the peg?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2013
     
    Unless your time is no-cost to you (could you usefully be doing something else you're fully capable at?) employ an Architect!
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2014
     
    So I now have the plans, next I need timber for the construction of said annexe. So I started shopping around but wow the prices vary hugely, is this normal?

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