Tue, 19 Dec 2023 04:51:41 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=78946#Comment_78946 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=78946#Comment_78946 Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:10:37 +0100 Lexy
Can any one advise how much I should be paying someone to project manage and build a project estimated to cost approx £260,000. I have been quoted 30% on labour plus 16% on materials plus 10% on subcontracted work plus an hourly labour rate of £18/hour to completely manage and build the project. I really just want to know if these are reasonable rates for a job in central Scotland in the current economic climate. The project manager/builder was also the architect for the design stage. I haven't put the build out to tender.

Thanks]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=78965#Comment_78965 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=78965#Comment_78965 Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:04:52 +0100 marktime http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=78977#Comment_78977 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=78977#Comment_78977 Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:30:33 +0100 Tuna
Without some idea of what you're building, and to what standard, it's hard to judge whether you're getting a good deal or not.

The labour rate seems reasonable by itself - but as we chose to project manage our build ourselves, I couldn't comment on the additional costs. Our 'labourers' helped us get a better discount from our local builders merchant - we get roughly the same discount as a small developer, despite being clueless self-builders. I'm not clear on why you should be paying a premium to your builder for materials?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=78989#Comment_78989 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=78989#Comment_78989 Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:47:34 +0100 marktime http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=78997#Comment_78997 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=78997#Comment_78997 Tue, 30 Mar 2010 22:19:07 +0100 cromar Sounds pricey to me too, but I wouldn't know what the going rates are. That's just based on the general cost of builders and architects in Edinburgh and a feeling that if those jobs are all the same guy then it's money for old rope for them.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79015#Comment_79015 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79015#Comment_79015 Wed, 31 Mar 2010 00:06:34 +0100 Lexy
The building will be a two story oak frame structure with larch cladding and slate roof. It will be roughly 105 sq metres in area so that is about 210 sq metres of new floor space. Walls and roof will be insulated to a very high standard using warmcell or similar. It will incorporate underfloor heating connected to a biomass boiler and will also make use of solar thermal and PV and a log stove with back boiler. it will house two bedrooms with ensuite shower rooms upstairs and a lounge hallway office shower room office and boiler/utility room downstairs. The work will include demolition of the existing extension that was impossible to insulate but the plan is to reclaim as much materials as possible from this to use on site. We hope that when it's finished it will be to a reasonably high standard.

Do his rates still sound to high? I have mentioned in a cross posting in the general category that he has also offered to project manage, inc subcontracting, for £24000 exc VAT and then do the building work for a daily rate ( don't know what that is yet!) and 12% mark up on materials. Does this sound reasonable?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79028#Comment_79028 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79028#Comment_79028 Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:09:42 +0100 marktime http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79043#Comment_79043 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79043#Comment_79043 Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:44:01 +0100 Tuna
Right now, in some areas the building market is dead. Labour rates should be good, and though material rates are creeping up, suppliers need the business so there are deals to be done. Don't ever accept the first quote you're given.

I'd really recommend finding some local-ish houses that have been built the same way, and talking to the owners to find out who they went with and what their experiences were. A personal recommendation is worth a thousand good quotes. Also, go and see some examples of your builder's previous work of this type, to see if the final finish is up to your expectations and if the owners were happy with their work. It's not just about fit and finish, it's about managing the budget, timescales, keeping the inspectors happy, not annoying the neighbours and keeping the site in a good state.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79212#Comment_79212 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79212#Comment_79212 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 15:30:26 +0100 Lexy
This represents approximately 9.2% of the build estimate. I read somewhere that an architect or Quantity surveyor might charge anywhere between 8% and 12%. 5% sounds much more reasonable at £13,000. I'd love to do the management myself but I don't have the time to spare right now so I'll need to pay someone else to take the headaches.

To me the job seems quite complicated due to our requirement for FSC certified wood warmcell or equivalent insulation and larch cladding not to mention the PV, bomass boiler, etc. I'd be terrified to unleash a bog standard builder onto this job unsupervised as I know from previous experience they'll just put in what they can get cheapest!!

Am I being naive?

I think it unlikely that he will drop his fee by half but I suppose I can just keep pushing until he gets to the point of walking away. :-)]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79216#Comment_79216 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79216#Comment_79216 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 15:47:51 +0100 betterroof As Tuna has said - get quotes from lots of people - they are a good way of seeing what the market is like and to use as a bargaining chip when you find a good builder. make sure you see examples of previous work and get feedback from clients. You don't want to end up with a builder who does a good job but pisses the neighbours off!

Get quotes for the different sections - project management/main contractor etc - even if you stay with your guy it will inform you and that is invaluable in a project of this size. Check everything as many times as you need until you're clear! It's worth it!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79243#Comment_79243 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79243#Comment_79243 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 21:24:47 +0100 Tuna Posted By: betterroofI definitely think a project manager is essential if you want to achieve high targets in terms of build quality/insulation etc.

Maybe our experience is atypical, but our general builders have proven to be very conscientious and more than capable of doing excellent work, even when faced with techniques they've not used before. If Lexy is getting an oak frame from one of the usual manufacturers, the process of completing it is not so specialist that a decent builder cannot do it.

If you already know you want FSC certified wood warmcell insulation, and an oak frame, what exactly is your project manager researching? Ask the suppliers and they can surely tell you your options and offer installation advice.

I think in general you need to get to at least one of the homebuilding shows and talk to people. Whilst building well is a challenge, it's not rocket science, and there are plenty of people out there doing it. 24K is a full time salary for one skilled person for six months. Are your requirements so unusual that you need a skilled person working full time on project management for the duration of the build? Talk to some of the oak frame suppliers and see if they have had any projects in your area, and if they recommend any local builders.

You've said that you don't have time to manage the, but you need to make time to put everything in place. A couple of day's research and phoning around now could save you thousands of pounds, even tens of thousands of pounds. You're putting a lot of faith in your only option now, and don't seem to have even followed up his previous jobs - so you've no idea if he has delivered the sort of project you're asking him to supervise.

We can offer endless advice here, but there's really no substitute for you checking out your alternatives, talking to suppliers, other local projects and just meeting people face to face.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79244#Comment_79244 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5585&Focus=79244#Comment_79244 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 21:25:49 +0100 Tuna