Hi, had some discussions with a company that want to build an electrolysis plant in northern Cheshire to supply our local glass bottle plant- one of the biggest in the UK- with H2 to heat the furnace which is heated with gas at the moment. They say it will run all the time but will be put on low production at peak electricity times and that it will be 72% efficient. I asked them if it would be more efficient to build an electric furnace, they said yes but that it would cost more as the furnace would have to be changed and also because of the government h2 subsidies. We have a wind farm near the site but we don’t have the same level of renewables as Scotland. I can’t help thinking this plant will displace renewable electricity use elsewhere causing more gas turbines to fire up to make electricity at 35% efficiency which would have been better used to heat the glass furnaces. Anybody got any thoughts on this?

*wasn't aware it was by electrolysis. Can't log in to edit errors!

Electrolysis is hugely inefficient - agree better to send electricity to the grid

The outfit linked to seem somewhat entwined with Hynet.

This is possibly the biggest glass bottle producer in the UK. Branded drinks companies deliver their products here and the bottles get filled at the site. It is crim Mal that we don’t refill glass bottles. They’re business depends on us not doing that at present!

Posted By: bogal2this plant will displace renewable electricity use elsewhere causing more gas turbines to fire up to make electricity at 35% efficiency which would have been better used to heat the glass furnaces

Posted By: philedgeI struggle to see that they'll be much of a surplus of renewable electricity in the years to come. As I understand things we're only managing 30-35% renewable now

Posted By: Dominic CooneyThe glass furnace should be electric anyway for future proofing

That's right Dominic. The renewable electricty scene is moving at incredible speed and we shouldn't fall for delaying-tactics talking-points, such as the 'displacement' concept, that seemed credible only a few years ago. We should be pressing for electrification of everything as fast as possible, even if the supply side wil take an amazingly few years to catch up. And the glass industry's heat requirement (lots of energy, but only moderate temperatures) would majke it one of the low-hanging fruits.

And yes, re-use of glassware unmelted is a scandalous piece of vision that's missing at national policy level.

'Build Beyond Zero', as mentioned in
http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17979
is the new book everyone should get - a revelation and practical source-book, recasting and updating our ideas of what the task of Green Building should now be. Buildings not merely nett-zero, but as active carbon-drawdown machines.

If 'in use' energy is by now a 'known' science and practice (even if pathetically un-adopted), the focus shifts to the newer science of embodied energy (esp the manufacturing industries, such as glass), as it's where greatest carbon draw-down/sequestration can happen, has the most up-front immediate climate impact, and has the longest-term effect on the total impact of a building's lifetime.