The cost of shingles has gone through the roof(!) lately, like many building materials. Current project, now at builder's costing stage, uses huge acreage of same, so the client's unhappy. What alternative sources? Unfortunately eco-nasty Canadians seem to be cheapest, Cornish cost more so that makes it worse. Any other homegrown sources? What about e.g. Poland, surely Europe must produce shingles?

What about durability? The builder's convinced that only Canadians are good enough, but if the Cornish are good enough for e.g. Eden Project .............

Perhaps there could be an opportunity for some enterprising soul to start importing them from e.g. Roumania, where many buildings are roofed with them (not sure what timber they use).

I have heard doubts about durability of native grown WRC compared to Canadian stuff.

Split shakes are of course more durable than sawn shingles, but must be much more expensive.

I have contacts with a family firm in the Czech Republic - from an area of the country with particularly high unemployment - so a great place to try to help economically. They are using larch - so the same benefits as cedar when using hand split wood. The costs are not prohibitive. I can talk to them about coming to the UK for projects if you'd like me to?

The roof will come with a 70 year guarantee & I've seen their (excellent) work first hand.

Good morning everyone. First time post, but been popping by for over a year. Anyway, I have some experience of Eastern European shingles, as we're renovation an old house in the Slovak Tatras. Most in the area have put sheet metal over the original shingles, unfortunately, but those who do repairs etc and even new roofs, tend to use sawn shingles. We specifically specified riven ones and they're not as easy to get and, of course more expensive. The normal length is 500mm, which are reasonably straightforward to obtain. (Ours are 700mm for historic reasons and a bit of a nightmare! I think we're the only private client for these in Slovakia!!) Any the main point I wanted to make was that they're very different in cross-section to the standard North American shingle. They are basically tongue and grooved, although the t & g are V-shaped. Standard material is Spruce, which is present in vast quantities. They are usually treated by dipping in 'Bochemit', a borax-based and therefore reasonably 'green' preservative. Known issues of leaching, of course, but standard practice is then to treat the laid roof with something oily and nasty - not so green!. They are parallel along their length. THe T&G system allows a different laying system all together than the 'slate-type' multi-overlap. The overlap for our 700mm shingles is only 200mm. The end result is very pleasing, the swept valleys and hips being a particular delight. From a distance a new roof looks almost like it's been thatched. Anymore info needed, just ask.

I must be particularly dense today! Sorry about the typos btw. Yes, they're single lap, grain down-slope, T&G on long down-slope edges only. All the shingles come produced with parallel edges, with the ones for the corners generally being about 150mm longer. They used 200mm overlap on ours, instead of the usual 150mm, because we could only get 800mm corner specials. They're then cut down on the job - one side only I believe, although I wasn't able to be there, but it looks like that, so they work a new v-shaped tongue on the new edge. I'm going to try to attach a few pics, but I'm not sure what a photobucket account is! I've not seen any cedar at all - majority of trees in that area are spruce, with some scots pine and larch. They prize larch highly (called locally 'red spruce') but it's difficult to get hold of and expensive if you can.

Actually there is one thing that someone may be able to help with. As I said above they often use the nastiest possible stuff as a treatment, including old engine oil. One reason may be that traditional treatments like linseed oil look great for about 6 months and then start to darken as it succumbs to fungal attack, eventually looking quite black. I've been trying to find a supplier of Tung Oil in quantity, as it seems to be the most resistant to fungal attack, but can't find one between 5 litres and 5 metric tonnes!! I reckon I need about 150-200 litres, so would be prepared to buy an oil drum full. Any ideas?

Dunno - the builder in question just fell through a roof so everything's gone quiet for a few months.

We are a manufacturer of Western Red Cedar Shakes and Shinges in Vancouver BC. Although a lot of you may know of the process of producing these shingles, I will reiterate that we utilise 99.99% of the fibre entering our facility. Although Western Red Cedar Shingles might be costlier in the beginning the longevity and natural characteristics as well as appeal make this a popular product especially when you consider the eco friendly nature of th product and manufacturing process. The thermal resistivity of cedar shingles, by far out strips other species as well as other roofing products, it has 413 x thermal resistivity than steel and 8x that of concrete. You can learn more about the benefits of cedar @ www.cedar-roofing.com.

Surely someone in this country can produce suitable larch shingles, rather than importing them from Eastern Europe? I would have thought you could give a specification to a sawmill in Wales or Scotland and get them made up?

Got doubts about suitability of wooden roofing materials in the British west. Seems a bit like romance leading the way over practicality. Do they last as long as it takes another tree to grow?

What's so special about the British west? No wetter or windier than many other places where shingles are used. However, all of Britain is very testing because of the frequent freeze/thaw cycling - typical temperate maritime - continental weather either freezes or bakes for long periods. We had a scare with Brash's Canadian shingles on http://www.space-and-light.co.uk/index_files/page0001.htm near Bath - advised by the manufacturer's rep that we'd done it all wrong according to their updated recommendations (updated since installation time) for reasons described above. 4yrs on, with much trepidation, removed shingles for inspection - all absolutely perfect! And said revised recommendations, on close inspection were incompetently confused - complete hash of above/below felt through-ventilation, avoidance of ice-dams and swimming pool extreme humidity American guidelines.

So rogerwhit, you're saying not in W Britain, or not in Britain at all? Where wd be OK then?

Let's balance it out (it's a bit like carbon trading, but let's not be so sad!). The mid-line for timber-derived product is: tree growth time (let's say 50y for uk-grown softwood to get a tree of 'planking' size) vs product life-span. Are yr shingles (or shakes for that matter) going to last that long in the freeze-thaw, moisture-cycling UK west, if un-treated, without starting to weaken around the nail-holes & lose themselves in the wind?

Less wetting! Low rainfall.

I emailed Tino Rawnsley http://www.cornishwoodland.co.uk and invited him to comment - I meant on the forum, but instead he emailed me back:

Hi All

At Rawnsley woodland products we have been producing sawn Shingles from FSC certified home grown plantation WRC for about 5 years now. our customers have given us nothing but positive feedback.

Because of the roumers that UK grown cedar being less durable we asked Prof Richard Murphy of imperial college to conduct some tests to establish its durability his findings indicated that the heartwood could be classed as ‘moderately durable’ to durable’ and that has been our own relatively limited experience.(Canadian WRC also fits in those categories)

I do not believe WRC coming from old growth forests in BC (a unique and irreplaceable ecosystem) to be a sustainable or environmentally justifiyable source. And the WRC that has been grown in this country is in limited supply( it was planted for a period as a nurse crop to bring on other ‘more valuable trees’) right now there is a big ‘fashion’ for WRC on the back of the huge marketing that the huge Canadian timber industry can afford to do. Other UK grown materials need to be promoted, Larch Sequoia, chestnut etc and architects and builders need to be realistic about the use of wood for roofs, Pitches need to be steep and detailing needs to be good to avoid wet areas

The shingles we cut normally uses material that is unsuitable for cladding. From summer 2008 all our sawdust and co products we will be making into briquettes and pellet fuel We use Bio diesel we make from waste veg oil to run our saws, machinery and delivery vehicles

We have been testing larch as a material for shingles and it looks promising if more ‘splitty’ than WRC

Sequoia is nice but wasteful to cut because of the amount of ‘sapwood’ and can have a ‘tannic’ runoff before they weather in

We would cleave chestnut or shakes but the quality of material we get down here in the SW does not allow.



For a future of greater demand on our biological resources We desperately need more effective dialogue with the Foresters and woodland owners, more marginal Land needs to be under tree cover. And sustainable forestry should be the only sort of forestry

A heavy tax should be leavied on all timber coming in from old growth forests.

Without these measures any ‘green branding ‘ of wood as ‘good’ is unsupportable.

Regards

Tino Rawnsley